jojodarose
Vocal Novice
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Favourite singer: Serj Tankian
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Post by jojodarose on Apr 15, 2021 17:14:01 GMT
Taste and See linked all I hear is a bunch of A1s and a G1, not an E1 and D1 or anything close to those pitches. I would say the G1 is probably bold-able. Can you link the other D1s please? Also I see you linked Embrace The Judgement of God, I believe that while that may possibly be an illusion I would second that there's a good chance that it is an Eb1 from what I've heard. There are definitely solid E1s in that section however either way With the main vocal frys I was a bit sceptical if it's A1s or D1s but the backing frys right after it I do still think they get to somewhere close to E1/D1 at the end of the phrase, at 3:44. as for the other D1s, One true maker i forgot to take out, that's an A1 as well (oops) And the other one is here at about 0:21 he does a faint growl that I think is an E1 briefly getting to D1 at the end of it and the shorter growl right after it I think also starts on D1. The 3:44 is a D1. Relatively toneless, hard to make out, but D1. Possibly countable, altho that's subjective due to the lack of tone and could be legitimately contested, however I would personally count it just about, I think it's a good enough note. Should probably link the 3:44 one, cos on further listening where you have initially linked is definitely not even close to the D1 you have, I'm 100% convinced, definitely A1s and a bold-worthy G1. And there are E1s in What Comes Around. Not entirely sure, but I don't think there's any D1s. Where do you hear the Eb1 in Drive Out The Demons? I'm hearing a lot of E1s, maybe I'm missing something? |
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Post by blazejecar2 on Apr 17, 2021 16:29:36 GMT
With the main vocal frys I was a bit sceptical if it's A1s or D1s but the backing frys right after it I do still think they get to somewhere close to E1/D1 at the end of the phrase, at 3:44. as for the other D1s, One true maker i forgot to take out, that's an A1 as well (oops) And the other one is here at about 0:21 he does a faint growl that I think is an E1 briefly getting to D1 at the end of it and the shorter growl right after it I think also starts on D1. The 3:44 is a D1. Relatively toneless, hard to make out, but D1. Possibly countable, altho that's subjective due to the lack of tone and could be legitimately contested, however I would personally count it just about, I think it's a good enough note. Should probably link the 3:44 one, cos on further listening where you have initially linked is definitely not even close to the D1 you have, I'm 100% convinced, definitely A1s and a bold-worthy G1. And there are E1s in What Comes Around. Not entirely sure, but I don't think there's any D1s. Where do you hear the Eb1 in Drive Out The Demons? I'm hearing a lot of E1s, maybe I'm missing something? Sorry for late response, I was traveling. Anyway, The What comes around D1 isn't sustained, it's just a short drop at the end of the growl, as far as I can hear. But I guess let's get some more opinions on that. Drive out the demons is mostly E1s and those are also listed but on 1 or 2 occasions melodyne showed the vocal frys bottoming closer to a slightly sharp Eb1, similarly like it was with the Eb7 earlier in this thread. not exactly there but close. I don't think they're strong enough to warrant a range expansion on their own but they are technically there. Finally, I have confirmation from Dale himself about some weird notes he did  And since this kind of notes were included in this, I can also open a debate on what in the world this note is and if it's even countable. A lot of the spoilered notes would be up for debate now as well, if what he says is true... So I guess that's more revisions I have to do... I'm definitely still open for collabbing on this with someone, if anyone wants to go through the low extremes and questionable stuff with me :-/  |
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mrrobot166
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Post by mrrobot166 on Apr 27, 2021 14:39:54 GMT
What do you mean lyric tenor
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mrrobot166
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Favourite singer: Jeff Buckley
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Post by mrrobot166 on Apr 27, 2021 14:40:26 GMT
That’s on his bio on wikipedia lol
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Post by blazejecar2 on Apr 27, 2021 15:02:31 GMT
That’s on his bio on wikipedia lol It's from an interview with Bride for a Finnish magazine. It's self proclaimed, but his early stuff was definitely very tenor-y so it's not exactly out of place. This thread originally started at G#3, he rarely did anything in even the 2nd octave back then |
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Post by motorist on Feb 27, 2022 1:14:58 GMT
Holy shit, that note kind of sounds like Chris Cornell but even he could never sing like that. |
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Post by blazejecar2 on Feb 27, 2022 6:41:57 GMT
B♭0 (" Overcoming Evil") at 4:17 very faint Bb0-C1 in the background following the main vocals. Dale confirmed it is vocals Is there any way to isolate this note or something? Cause I'm not hearing anything recognizable as vocal below B♭2 in the backing vocal. Also, what's the source on Dale confirming this? I have tried, but couldn't find a way to isolate it more, seems to be mono recorded so most methods take it out along with the main vocals... It starts just a speck after the 4:17 mark and it's the loudest there, the C1 is completely in background already. As for the source, I've actually exchanged a few emails with Dale and he also responds to youtube comments if you ask him stuff. He is happy to clear up on this. He also said he has recorded something like 600 songs in recent years so his discography is going to become quite massive. Though 1 thing to note: he also said the trampled under feet ?0 note in the questionable section isn't pitch shifted and one or two things kind of obviously untrue like that, so I do take his claims with a grain of salt. The Bb0 could be some bass guitar/synth after all...though i think i can make out the bass line just fine and it's not it |
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Post by blazejecar2 on Feb 27, 2022 9:10:41 GMT
Yeah the best I was able to make out there was the bass playing lower melodies, and even that I'm quite skeptical of getting as low as B♭0. B♭1 seems far more plausible. It seems like it would be nearly impossible to make out anything with as low of a frequency as B♭0 in a section as loud as that without some kind of isolation. I hear the bass at B♭1 as well, yes. Didn't say it was easy to spot. I hear it anyways (albeit only on my studio headphones, not on my phone or speakers), it sounds sustained, not plucked and Dale has confirmed it being voice, whatever it is, so I guess maybe some other opinions are needed before I take it off.
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Post by blazejecar2 on May 28, 2022 5:32:34 GMT
Oh nice, I still haven't gone through a lot of the live stuff, so definitely adding those live notes here. Just a few questions: - Why skip everything between D6 and C7? Is all of that considered debatable? If so, is such a huge gap in notes acceptable? - Embrace the Judgement of God frys were discussed on this thread as being much lower than B1, has there been some new consensus? - Notes under F1? - I definitely hear the 7 Thunderz Roar note as an E1. Makes sense with the rest of the layers too |
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Post by blazejecar2 on May 28, 2022 16:09:19 GMT
Huh...okay, well that's a take. I mostly agree on sub F1 notes, I brought it up in the thread before, but it seemed kinda fair to at least include the pitchable stuff, since it's consistently used. Lesser notes than this have been counted for bass singers too. Unless the argument is it's pitch shifted. But yea, most of his sub F1 notes are in the questionable section for me too. High notes I'd respectfully disagree. Dale seems quite adamant that he doesn't pitch shift them and controlling inhales well enough to do melodic lines with vibrato like in this full minute of backing vocals C6 to an F6 (3:15) would be...quite hard to say the least. I'd be much more impressed if he controlled inhales that well than I would be if it's all real. And overtone possibilities are already in the questionable notes part |
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Post by Rodney Blazershorts on May 29, 2022 23:39:23 GMT
He needs to calm down.
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Post by blazejecar2 on May 30, 2022 11:23:18 GMT
I'm pretty sure those notes are actually 5th octave, they just sound like 6th octave notes because of technique + weird mixing. Any 6th octave notes I've heard from the guy in lead vocal from the past 10 years has sounded inhaled as heck, and he doesn't really strike me as the kinda singer to obscure his 6th octave phrasing into the backround like that. I feel the opposite, he's quite often hid wild notes in the background in the old days already, especially on the Kinetic Faith album there's dozens of random wails hidden in vocal layers, like the two F♯6s and a G♯6 here and a B6 here at 4:16/4:17 (that I only noticed today after relistening to the album for examples). He's also done it on other records like the backing G♯6 here (although I could see this one being overtones at least, I originally thought it as another G♯5 and keep going back and forth). These aren't the best control examples but some notes like the whole "Lift Him Up" section or the clearly screamed notes like the long backing 6 second E♭6 in "Soul Killers" I just don't see being inhaled. For reference example, here's a lead-vocals-removed clip of me doing an F6 with the same technique as Dale's screamed F6. This isn't inhaled or even whistle register and it sounds similar (his is just more distorted and different voice type ofc). To me it's 100% he does it this way. We also have a vast library of his 5th octave notes, if he wanted to hit an F♯5 or G♯5 in the old examples or C♯5/E♭5 in "Lift Him Up", it's well within his very controlled and comfortable range, he has 0 reason to use any other technique than what he used to hit the same note 25 other times in the song and 1000 times in other songs. To be fair, I can certainly see some notes being either or, mixing is strange sometimes and I've also logged a bunch of possible overtones, but I also think there is a lot of stuff that is legit. That's just my 2 cents, since I can hit those notes myself and am used to how different techniques sound. (and I'm not replying just to you, just explaining my reasoning so others can have input too) |
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Post by motorist on Jun 2, 2022 23:19:18 GMT
This just sounds like a D5 to me. The technique makes it sound a bit strange and different from others' D5s, but definitely not high in my opinion, and not very different from his own D5s either. I would have to agree with Platypus's idea that most of the controlled 6th octave notes are actually 5th octave. |
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Post by blazejecar2 on Mar 17, 2023 5:46:28 GMT
I would say both the "Separate" C2 and the "Tones Deep" B1s should be listed as backing vocal notes. I also don't really hear the "Tones Deep" passage getting lower than like D2. I'm curious to hear more of these bolded first octave notes. I think I still hear it drop under D2, but D2s do seem like the much more relevant note there, will remove the bold A lot of the 1st octave notes are in Platypus' video and some of the very lowest might be a matter of opinion, with jojodarose we decided that certain notes count, as in-aren't pitch shifted (Dale still claims he doesn't do that) and are hit consistently enough, someone else might be more on the fence on counting those. Also, live notes were added from his 80s gigs and I'm curious about the 6th octave notes. Sometimes he definitely inhaled those, but the ones added sound similar to that "In The Dark" G6 that's linked. Sounds different from inhaled notes and more powerful, to me it seems more like actual whistle notes, but I'm curious about other opinions. And a possible F7 is linked in questionable notes, not sure what exactly that is |
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Post by Bink on Mar 17, 2023 5:52:09 GMT
{qoute} I would say both the "Separate" C2 and the "Tones Deep" B1s should be listed as backing vocal notes. I also don't really hear the "Tones Deep" passage getting lower than like D2. I'm curious to hear more of these bolded first octave notes. I think I still hear it drop under D2, but D2s do seem like the much more relevant note there, will remove the bold A lot of the 1st octave notes are in Platypus' video and some of the very lowest might be a matter of opinion, with jojodarose we decided that certain notes count, as in-aren't pitch shifted (Dale still claims he doesn't do that) and are hit consistently enough, someone else might be more on the fence on counting those. Also, live notes were added from his 80s gigs and I'm curious about the 6th octave notes. Sometimes he definitely inhaled those, but the ones added sound similar to that "In The Dark" G6 that's linked. Sounds different from inhaled notes and more powerful, to me it seems more like actual whistle notes, but I'm curious about other opinions. And a possible F7 is linked in questionable notes, not sure what exactly that is I would personally appreciate it if we got some links to bold lower first octave notes and see where we go from there Also another thing, I don't think that B♭0 is countable, even if there was anything there it's so indisputably quiet that I just wouldn't bother with it. |
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Post by blazejecar2 on Mar 20, 2023 6:47:23 GMT
Yeah I am VERY skeptical of those zeroth octave and lower first octave notes. All sub D1 and even some D1s have always been linked in the thread for discussion as we weren't sure about counting any of that (if it's even those pitches because it's obviously weak growls at this point) but noone ever commented on those. E1s were also brought up in this thread before as most of them are backing frys on the DM1 Dominus Meus album which you also said you'd count, here: I would count them because they're still controlled enough that he's using them as melody notes, even if the tone is quite fryish. Stuff like this is why it's useful to have grey as a note color. The 2 bolds on E1 are from the Haunted No More project, 90% of what he sings there is 2nd/1st octave. Like this for example, which I've also linked in the thread before. 7 Thunderz Roar is an 11 second backing note and it's in Platypus' video but pitched as F♯1, which I still don't really get, every other note in that long wall of screams is an E, random F♯ just...doesn't belong |
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