Dimash Kudaibergen (141,961 views)

[damonkarma]

I'll hit all of you up when Dimash loses his voice and only sing in 1 octave worth of range. Btw I can mix a C#6 with vibrato I really wonder if your superhero(was that his song too?) can do that aaaah he can screech a semitone lower note non-live.

And please listen to David Phelps to understand support, he has a far better G4-F5 range than Dimash

[findingword]

Matheus is a terrible person yet the rise of aesthetic vocal channels helps him get popular. It’s sad.

[kaji]

Apr 11, 2020 14:32:15 GMT damonkarma said:

D3-G4-A5 This is his supported range... He does not sound like a soprano he can't even support a tenor high C.

Chile... supported range is a nonsensical concept created by the Youtube community. Actual support technique is a breath management technique hence why 'support range' makes literally no sense, as it would not influence the way it sounds much. You can't know for sure what singer is using support on without asking them lol. And I meant his tone... That tone up there is not a tenor timbre. 

[findingword]

Apr 11, 2020 16:10:08 GMT damonkarma said:

I'll hit all of you up when Dimash loses his voice and only sing in 1 octave worth of range. Btw I can mix a C#6 with vibrato I really wonder if your superhero(was that his song too?) can do that aaaah he can screech a semitone lower note non-live.

And please listen to David Phelps to understand support, he has a far better G4-F5 range than Dimash

LOL. Who cares if you can’t understand the term support. Bragging on how you can hit an undocumented C#6 is silly. I think this maybe Matheus himself.

[kaji]

Apr 11, 2020 15:36:47 GMT roman said:

Apr 11, 2020 15:34:04 GMT damonkarma said:

A guidance for you
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxa7MZI8PYo 

2:18 G4 is supported
5:01 C6 is not supported
Dimash has an E2 
He has 10/10 flexibility 

A great introduction to Dimash, he is a good singer. In 10-15 years with proper training he could become an awesome singer.

That's an absolutely nonsensical video by an uneducated Matheus fan (Matheus and the "Phantom of Singing" run a website together). I ask you once again: Why don't you consume vocal coach/voice teacher content, if you want to inform yourself about vocal technique on YT?
And what is breath support in your opinion?

Edit: You and me both know that you never had a single voice lesson. Really no offense, I'm just pointing it out

I know Phantom of Singing and he does not agree with Matheus. And I agree with what you said there. For damonkarma, I recommend Sam Johnson, Marc Reynolds, Jaron Legrair from teachers on Youtube. They actually know how the voice works and know what they are talking about, and most importantly can sing (especially Jaron). 

Apr 11, 2020 16:10:08 GMT damonkarma said:

I'll hit all of you up when Dimash loses his voice and only sing in 1 octave worth of range. Btw I can mix a C#6 with vibrato I really wonder if your superhero(was that his song too?) can do that aaaah he can screech a semitone lower note non-live.

And please listen to David Phelps to understand support, he has a far better G4-F5 range than Dimash

I love and study David's voice (in fact I made an entire thread about him here, and listened to literally EVERYTHING he has done in his career) but comparing Dimash and David makes no sense. Completely different techniques, completely different styles, completely different ways of singiing all together. If you want to talk about a high belter with a better technique (better UPPER BELTING technique precisely, not all together) bring someone like Jeffery Lewis or some gospel singers, not someone like Phelps who doesn't even sing in his upper range that much. 

[findingword]

Apr 11, 2020 16:14:33 GMT kaji said:

Apr 11, 2020 15:36:47 GMT roman said:

That's an absolutely nonsensical video by an uneducated Matheus fan (Matheus and the "Phantom of Singing" run a website together). I ask you once again: Why don't you consume vocal coach/voice teacher content, if you want to inform yourself about vocal technique on YT?
And what is breath support in your opinion?

Edit: You and me both know that you never had a single voice lesson. Really no offense, I'm just pointing it out

I know Phantom of Singing and he does not agree with Matheus. And I agree with what you said there. For damonkarma, I recommend Sam Johnson, Marc Reynolds, Jaron Legrair from teachers on Youtube. They actually know how the voice works and know what they are talking about, and most importantly can sing (especially Jaron). 

I agree but still I don’t think the Phantom of Singing knows what they are talking about.

[kaji]

Apr 11, 2020 15:34:04 GMT damonkarma said:

Apr 11, 2020 15:13:36 GMT roman said:

I'm a formally trained singer with a lot of experience. With all due respect: You don't need to "explain" anything to me.

No, he does not raise his larynx at that point, he actually sings his belts with a lowered larynx til appr. D5. In his high mix, he uses twang with a slightly raised larynx, which is an absolutely natural laryngeal position for your upper mix. Your larynx naturally raises a little when going higher. Trying to unnaturally keep it in a neutral position in the higher area of a register would just cause more tension.

However a laryngeal position doesn't tell you if something is "supported" or not anyway


Erm you are aware that in vocal pedagogy "support" is just the short term for "breath support", right? :-D

Why are people partly not interested in actual training and scientifically backed information? And even if you prefer YT as source (which is generally not ideal): There are tons of YT channels run by vocal coaches and even voice teachers. Why do you watch a layman entertainment channel instead to get information about a scientific field the channel owner is not educated in?

Can you please tell me what support is in your opinion?

A guidance for you
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxa7MZI8PYo 

2:18 G4 is supported
5:01 C6 is not supported
Dimash has an E2 
He has 10/10 flexibility 

A great introduction to Dimash, he is a good singer. In 10-15 years with proper training he could become an awesome singer.

George who made this video is a good friend of mine, and even he himself does not agree with that analysis anymore... 

Apr 11, 2020 16:17:24 GMT findingword said:

Apr 11, 2020 16:14:33 GMT kaji said:

I know Phantom of Singing and he does not agree with Matheus. And I agree with what you said there. For damonkarma , I recommend Sam Johnson, Marc Reynolds, Jaron Legrair from teachers on Youtube. They actually know how the voice works and know what they are talking about, and most importantly can sing (especially Jaron). 

I agree but still I don’t think the Phantom of Singing knows what they are talking about.

That video is like ancient. He does not agree with what he said there anymore. 

[roman]

Apr 11, 2020 16:12:50 GMT kaji said:

Apr 11, 2020 14:32:15 GMT damonkarma said:

D3-G4-A5 This is his supported range... He does not sound like a soprano he can't even support a tenor high C.

Chile... supported range is a nonsensical concept created by the Youtube community. Actual support technique is a breath management technique hence why 'support range' makes literally no sense, as it would not influence the way it sounds much. You can't know for sure what singer is using support on without asking them lol. And I meant his tone... That tone up there is not a tenor timbre. 

Totally. Support is a breath management technique and doesn't even create a certain tone. You need to focus on other "hints", that are sometimes there, sometimes not, if you want to be able to tell, if someone "supports" or not. If someone has breath management issues and runs out of air too quickly, then this person is probably not supporting. If a person seems to have great breath management and is e.g. able to sustain really long notes with an even sound, and is able to sing very long phrases on one breath, then this person is probably supporting. But you're right. You usually can't even tell for sure by just listening to someone. And supporting doesn't magically terminate the possibility of too much tension, And it doesn't magically make you an overall great singer like Matheus advertises.

[kaji]

Apr 11, 2020 14:58:40 GMT damonkarma said:

PM me I will explain. Dimash raises his larynx after G4 in mix(in reality after D#4 but he can inconsistently support G4) that is what i meant, he has great breath support I know that.

Once again. Belting is a vocal function that in 9 out of 10 cases is gonna use a higher larynx position. Whitney Houston - higher larynx (most of the time), Mariah Carey - very raised larynx, Ariana Grande - very raised larynx, So Hyang - very raised larynx. Raising of the larynx is NOT unhealthy. It is a NATURAL function of the larynx. It will rise with pitch. And even if you do it purposefully it will not cause any unnecessary constriction if done well. There have been studies done on this. The issues Dimash has (and he has a few in my opinion, nothing serious though) have NOTHING to do with his larynx position. 

[damonkarma]

Words are there to express what an action means. So if you think support is breath support use whatever word you want to use, the definition is very clear (larynx position and unnecessary tension).
Dimash can sustain up to B5 with his laryngeal vibratory mechanism so his breath support can reach to B5 but that is not what i mean.
Dimash has an average to good mix voice and raises his larynx around G#4 all the time. He has good sounding B4-E5 range and round D5s but overall he has a lot of tension. You can't hear the same tension when David sings or So Hyang belts B5s C6s. I am not a hater I'm just pointing out something and I don't care if you don't call it support, what I mean is very clear.

[findingword]

Apr 11, 2020 16:19:09 GMT kaji said:

Apr 11, 2020 16:17:24 GMT findingword said:

I agree but still I don’t think the Phantom of Singing knows what they are talking about.

That video is like ancient. He does not agree with what he said there anymore. 

He needs to address that then. That video is what Matheus’ cult loves. If Phantom disagrees with what he said I would need to hear it from him obviously.

[damonkarma]

You are saying supported range makes no sense and working with Lovato Lover who rates singers by their supported range. I am waiting for a Dimash video Kaji, wondering where you are going to rank him. He is definitely not one of the best in the world I'm sure you are capable of seeing that.

[kaji]

Apr 11, 2020 16:22:59 GMT damonkarma said:

Words are there to express what an action means. So if you think support is breath support use whatever word you want to use, the definition is very clear (larynx position and unnecessary tension).
Dimash can sustain up to B5 with his laryngeal vibratory mechanism so his breath support can reach to B5 but that is not what i mean.
Dimash has an average to good mix voice and raises his larynx around G#4 all the time. He has good sounding B4-E5 range and round D5s but overall he has a lot of tension. You can't hear the same tension when David sings or So Hyang belts B5s C6s. I am not a hater I'm just pointing out something and I don't care if you don't call it support, what I mean is very clear.

Support is a term that has existed in vocal pedagogy for decades. And it has always been used in that way until the Youtube vocal community came along... 

'Laryngeal vibratory mechanism'. It just sounds like you repeated something you saw me comment on Youtube (my Youtube username is Kaji, and I'm pretty sure some of y'all will be very familiar with me). Saying someone uses a laryngeal vibratory mechanism makes as much sense as saying someone phonates. It does not give you any more information than that.

Again, larynx position is not gonna tense your sound unless you're doing it correctly, and in this case he is... The tension he sometimes has, has NOTHING to do with larynx position (and I've heard him actually keep it neutral/lower up to the high C...). 

I can hear A LOT of tension in So Hyang's singing up high lol. Heavy use of the valsalva manuever, distorted vowels, splatted vowels... I can go on. She is excellent in her midrange but her top notes are not a good example of what a free voice sounds like. 

[findingword]

Wait milczk is Kaji?

[kaji]

Apr 11, 2020 16:28:27 GMT damonkarma said:

You are saying supported range makes no sense and working with Lovato Lover who rates singers by their supported range. I am waiting for a Dimash video Kaji, wondering where you are going to rank him. He is definitely not one of the best in the world I'm sure you are capable of seeing that.

Camden himself doesn't agree much with the terminology he is using. The only reason why he uses it is because of people who will attack him in the comments if he says something different... There's a big mob mentality on Youtube (yes, in Dimash's fanbase too, it's not an isolated problem). 

Apr 11, 2020 16:30:17 GMT findingword said:

Wait milczk is Kaji?

Yes. 

[findingword]

Apr 11, 2020 16:29:27 GMT kaji said:

Apr 11, 2020 16:22:59 GMT damonkarma said:

Words are there to express what an action means. So if you think support is breath support use whatever word you want to use, the definition is very clear (larynx position and unnecessary tension).
Dimash can sustain up to B5 with his laryngeal vibratory mechanism so his breath support can reach to B5 but that is not what i mean.
Dimash has an average to good mix voice and raises his larynx around G#4 all the time. He has good sounding B4-E5 range and round D5s but overall he has a lot of tension. You can't hear the same tension when David sings or So Hyang belts B5s C6s. I am not a hater I'm just pointing out something and I don't care if you don't call it support, what I mean is very clear.

Support is a term that has existed in vocal pedagogy for decades. And it has always been used in that way until the Youtube vocal community came along... 

'Laryngeal vibratory mechanism'. It just sounds like you repeated something you saw me comment on Youtube (my Youtube username is Kaji, and I'm pretty sure some of y'all will be very familiar with me). Saying someone uses a laryngeal vibratory mechanism makes as much sense as saying someone phonates. It does not give you any more information than that.

Again, larynx position is not gonna tense your sound unless you're doing it correctly, and in this case he is... The tension he sometimes has, has NOTHING to do with larynx position (and I've heard him actually keep it neutral/lower up to the high C...). 

I can hear A LOT of tension in So Hyang's singing up high lol. Heavy use of the valsalva manuever, distorted vowels, splatted vowels... I can go on. She is excellent in her midrange but her top notes are not a good example of what a free voice sounds like. 

THANK YOU everyone just says that Sohyang is perfect and they leave it at that. I think she is amazing but she has problems that I never see addressed.

[jaredletoisbackagain]

"Supported range" is the most bullshit, pseudo-science nonsense that youtube vocal range channels have fooled themselves into believing.

EDIT: Oops, I thought page 2 was the newest page so I missed 2 pages of debate on this.

[roman]

Apr 11, 2020 16:22:59 GMT damonkarma said:

Words are there to express what an action means. So if you think support is breath support use whatever word you want to use, the definition is very clear (larynx position and unnecessary tension).
Dimash can sustain up to B5 with his laryngeal vibratory mechanism so his breath support can reach to B5 but that is not what i mean.
Dimash has an average to good mix voice and raises his larynx around G#4 all the time. He has good sounding B4-E5 range and round D5s but overall he has a lot of tension. You can't hear the same tension when David sings or So Hyang belts B5s C6s. I am not a hater I'm just pointing out something and I don't care if you don't call it support, what I mean is very clear.

Once again: a) your laryngeal position has nothing to do wit support
b) I know that Matheus names his weird videos "Support vs strain", but those are NOT opposites
c) No, Dimash does not raise his larynx around G#4 (and there's no "tension" in the sound). Heck, that guy uses a bel canto technique for his belts til appr. D5. Bel canto means LOWERED larynx. Otherwise you wouldn't even get a classical tone. 

I'm outta here. I wish everyone a great day. I've already spent too much time with being annoyed about the consequences of Matheus' actions. I'm glad btw that there are at least some voice teachers (like Sam Johnson) who try to educate people and tell them what nonsense Matheus spreads. But Matheus' followers are like a sect. And Matheus profits from their lack of education and lack of will to educate themselves. And, sadly even those, who know that every single expert in the world disagrees with what Matheus says, don't mind. And they don't mind the fact that Matheus is absolutely not educated in vocal pedagogy. And you can't even talk with these people. It's like talking to a wall. Kpop Matheus s their "prophet" and they believe every nonsense he says. That's kinda worrying. 

[findingword]

Apr 11, 2020 16:30:57 GMT kaji said:

Apr 11, 2020 16:28:27 GMT damonkarma said:

You are saying supported range makes no sense and working with Lovato Lover who rates singers by their supported range. I am waiting for a Dimash video Kaji, wondering where you are going to rank him. He is definitely not one of the best in the world I'm sure you are capable of seeing that.

Camden himself doesn't agree much with the terminology he is using. The only reason why he uses it is because of people who will attack him in the comments if he says something different... There's a big mob mentality on Youtube (yes, in Dimash's fanbase too, it's not an isolated problem). 

If Lovato Lover doesn’t agree with the terminology why don’t they stop using it and educate the fanbase? Seems like they should be helping people learn than telling them what they want to hear.

[kaji]

Apr 11, 2020 16:36:45 GMT roman said:

Apr 11, 2020 16:22:59 GMT damonkarma said:

Words are there to express what an action means. So if you think support is breath support use whatever word you want to use, the definition is very clear (larynx position and unnecessary tension).
Dimash can sustain up to B5 with his laryngeal vibratory mechanism so his breath support can reach to B5 but that is not what i mean.
Dimash has an average to good mix voice and raises his larynx around G#4 all the time. He has good sounding B4-E5 range and round D5s but overall he has a lot of tension. You can't hear the same tension when David sings or So Hyang belts B5s C6s. I am not a hater I'm just pointing out something and I don't care if you don't call it support, what I mean is very clear.

Once again: a) your laryngeal position has nothing to do wit support
b) I know that Matheus names his weird videos "Support vs strain", but those are NOT opposites
c) No, Dimash does not raise his larynx around G#4 (and there's no "tension" in the sound). Heck, that guy uses a bel canto technique for his belts til appr. D5. Bel canto means LOWERED larynx. Otherwise you wouldn't even get a classical tone. 

I'm outta here. I wish everyone a great day. I've already spent too much time with being annoyed about the consequences of Matheus' actions. I'm glad btw that there are at least some voice teachers (like Sam Johnson) who try to educate people and tell them what nonsense Matheus spreads. But Matheus' followers are like a sect. And Matheus profits from their lack of education and lack of will to educate themselves. And, sadly even those, who know that every single expert in the world disagrees with what Matheus says, don't mind. And they don't mind the fact that Matheus is absolutely not educated in vocal pedagogy. And you can't even talk with these people. It's like talking to a wall. Kpop Matheus s their "prophet" and they believe every nonsense he says. That's kinda worrying. 

Actually I gotta disagree with you there. A lot of the upper notes in tenor Bel Canto (Rossini, Bellini and the lot) singing uses a neutral larynx. It is generally the midrange that needs a low larynx however. Pavarotti is a good example of the neutral larynx uphigh and lower larynx in the midrange. 

Apr 11, 2020 16:37:00 GMT findingword said:

Apr 11, 2020 16:30:57 GMT kaji said:

Camden himself doesn't agree much with the terminology he is using. The only reason why he uses it is because of people who will attack him in the comments if he says something different... There's a big mob mentality on Youtube (yes, in Dimash's fanbase too, it's not an isolated problem). 

If Lovato Lover doesn’t agree with the terminology why don’t they stop using it and educate the fanbase? Seems like they should be helping people learn than telling them what they want to hear.

I mean. He gets attacked for making even the simplest videos without any terminology, so I see why he doesn't want to fight them. He even got attacked by Dimash's fans before. It just makes me want to hate the Youtube vocal community even more. It's so toxic. From every single side. I can think of only a few people who are being respectful in the comments. 

[findingword]

Apr 11, 2020 16:42:39 GMT kaji said:

Apr 11, 2020 16:37:00 GMT findingword said:

If Lovato Lover doesn’t agree with the terminology why don’t they stop using it and educate the fanbase? Seems like they should be helping people learn than telling them what they want to hear.

I mean. He gets attacked for making even the simplest videos without any terminology, so I see why he doesn't want to fight them. He even got attacked by Dimash's fans before. It just makes me want to hate the Youtube vocal community even more. It's so toxic. From every single side. I can think of only a few people who are being respectful in the comments. 

I don’t really see people attacking them constantly. I only see this in the Dimash vs Mankind vid and the soyhang didn’t hit a C#6 one. There is marginal rudeness in the vocal analysis ones. Still, I think it would be better for them to stop trying to cater to the rude fans.

[damonkarma]

Apr 11, 2020 17:00:47 GMT findingword said:

Apr 11, 2020 16:42:39 GMT kaji said:

I mean. He gets attacked for making even the simplest videos without any terminology, so I see why he doesn't want to fight them. He even got attacked by Dimash's fans before. It just makes me want to hate the Youtube vocal community even more. It's so toxic. From every single side. I can think of only a few people who are being respectful in the comments. 

I don’t really see people attacking them constantly. I only see this in the Dimash vs Mankind vid and the soyhang didn’t hit a C#6 one. There is marginal rudeness in the vocal analysis ones. Still, I think it would be better for them to stop trying to cater to the rude fans.

In that video Kaji just points out Dimash's non-world class belting skills. He is a good belter has fantastic flexibility but his best register is his head voice. His head voice can be considered amongst top 20 male hv's.

[kaji]

Apr 11, 2020 17:06:05 GMT damonkarma said:

Apr 11, 2020 17:00:47 GMT findingword said:

I don’t really see people attacking them constantly. I only see this in the Dimash vs Mankind vid and the soyhang didn’t hit a C#6 one. There is marginal rudeness in the vocal analysis ones. Still, I think it would be better for them to stop trying to cater to the rude fans.

In that video Kaji just points out Dimash's non-world class belting skills. He is a good belter has fantastic flexibility but his best register is his head voice. His head voice can be considered amongst top 20 male hv's.

No... That's not what the video's purpose was. 

[damonkarma]

I want to point out some detail about Dimash that someone who contacted me shared.

youtu.be/jfIcuEzd6ps?t=219 actually I'm not 100% sure about this one. But to my ears this seems like an operatic bel canto E5 which he never showed off before, he utilized same technique on C#s and Ds before but starting from Eb, he approaches a much lighter sound besides this powerful E5.

[justhere]

New song: "We Are One"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGxyobm5zm4