Marwan Ayman (5,482 views)

[bringerofchaos]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l-xrWOuo00&t=0s
New release from The Bass Gang! Some sick low Cs from Marwan here, with some F1s as well. This gave me the CHILLS!
Notes like that convince me more and more that he is a bass.
Also, lest we forget, just like there are different flavors of ice cream, there are different flavors of bass, as Peter said. 

[Steingrim]

Nov 22, 2023 22:09:04 GMT bringerofchaos said:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l-xrWOuo00&t=0s
New release from The Bass Gang! Some sick low Cs from Marwan here, with some F1s as well. This gave me the CHILLS!
Notes like that convince me more and more that he is a bass.
Also, lest we forget, just like there are different flavors of ice cream, there are different flavors of bass, as Peter said. 

Nice fry bass lines throughout, from all of them. If one likes that sort of thing. Gunther Emmerlich singing "Im tiefen keller" from a wonderfully resonant D2 is a very different flavor of bass, but it's not exactly contemporary.

[bringerofchaos]

On another note, passagi are not super reliable because they can easily be manipulated. They only matter in the classical world, same with timbre. Timbre is just the color your voice has. I think the issue here is that some of y'all are trying to apply operatic criteria to a contemporary singer. I'm just going to restate Peter's statement here. It's all about comfort, range, and where your voice naturally sits, outside of the classical world. His timbre is clearly bright as hell, but he has great tone down to G#1. Also. Marwan doesn't chest-fry. He said it himself. And those C2s in Jolly Sailor Bold, are clearly chest voice. Same with most of his low notes to my ear. Plus, fry is fry, there are just different qualities of it.
I know I'm probs going to get dumped on for this, but yeah. It's about time the OP considered fixing his voice type and lows/highs but he seems to be busy outside of here.

[Steingrim]

Nov 23, 2023 12:09:07 GMT bringerofchaos said:

His timbre is clearly bright as hell, but he has great tone down to G#1. Also. Marwan doesn't chest-fry. He said it himself.

There are about three and a half people on Earth who have great tone down to G#1 in chest voice.

[bringerofchaos]

I'm sorry to disagree, but I do think he is some kind of bass. This is probably going to be my last word on this, since there seems to be no point in changing yalls minds. Have fun talking it out I guess.

[Steingrim]

Nov 23, 2023 15:49:37 GMT bringerofchaos said:

I'm sorry to disagree, but I do think he is some kind of bass. This is probably going to be my last word on this, since there seems to be no point in changing yalls minds. Have fun talking it out I guess.

Here's one of them. He's the only person who has ever recorded this piece in the original score down to G1 - the way the composer intended it. So arguably he has great tone down to G1, in chest voice.

[md2002002]

What a convoluted mess this thread has all become

[Goober]

hey, 5 octave range though.

[bassmanmatteo]

Nov 23, 2023 17:28:06 GMT md2002002 said:

What a convoluted mess this thread has all become

That’s why some people here have been against voice type discussions cause they lead to debates that go nowhere.

[Steingrim]

Nov 23, 2023 22:10:56 GMT bassmanmatteo said:

Nov 23, 2023 17:28:06 GMT md2002002 said:

What a convoluted mess this thread has all become

That’s why some people here have been against voice type discussions cause they lead to debates that go nowhere.

The typical voice type discussion is about whether the nondescript is really a baritone or a tenor. "Bass or tenor?" is more unusual. Finding a tenor with the crappiest G#1 in chest voice known to mankind would be an interesting saga. I have a crappy C2 in chest voice and I'm not even a tenor. Quite ordinary compared to mr. Miller. Who would pale into nothingness when faced with a person with passaggi 7 semitones above him who's capable of competing with him in octave 1.

[Tetra]

I think it was interesting at first, but then it just devolved into:

"TENOR"
"NUH UH"
"YUH HUH"

[wbradycall]

Nov 20, 2023 14:03:38 GMT bringerofchaos said:

Ive actually consulted a couple of mentors in the BSN about this dilemma, and here’s what they had say.

Peer reviewed sources are great, though, those sources are to standardize the pedagogy and not to be used to approve/disprove stances (edit: for arguments' sake, use it to help instead). Rather, they should all invite conversation and critical thinking.
The voice is as much a growing instrument as it is an aging instrument.
Maybe everyone's premise should begin with: "Wow, Marwan is a great musician. How is that so? Hm.
Interesting, he has good vocal technique to where he breaks certain limits and somehow adheres to these standards as well."
Then, as data is gathered and his development continues: "Would years of specific training assist in eventually determining a fach to allow his career to flourish, or is this an anomaly in which, if trained properly, can have a tenor-like high C and still be able to produce a low C that rivals basses?"
-Thou Yang

People. Timbre does not matter for voice type outside of opera. Neither does the passaggio. It's all based on range, comfort, and where your voice naturally sits unless you're singing the hyper-specific kind of technique required for singing certain operatic roles where tons of other factors are considered. If Marwan trained as an opera singer, perhaps he would end up singing higher repertoire
- we would have no idea until he underwent training. In all the contexts we hear him sing, he is a bass. Imagine yourself in a university choir where a guy might have a timbre more like a tenor but has a comfortable and reliable C2 - that guy is going to be singing bass 2 in that choir, and probably every other choir, 100% of the time. And that's still within the classical world where some kind of voice designation is needed. Timbre and passaggio is even less important if you move beyond into the non-classical world.

-Peter Barber

They both make very good points. Also, brady, I highly recommend not using operatic fachs for Marwan since he’s a contemporary singer.

Okay yeah I sometimes classify contemporary singers by the fach system but not as often as I used to because words such as "tenor" or "baritone" can be used much more broadly in contemporary music than in classical, so much so that the terms barely have any meaning. Whether it be simple terms such as "baritone" or more complicated terms such as "heldentenor" or "basso buffo" those terms are very difficult to apply to contemporary singing because you may never know what someone sounds like in person without a microphone. Naturally lighter-voiced people may use vocal distortion to add a false sense of twang or "dramatic-ness" and also often darken their timbres a lot. Also, people with naturally heavier voices may croon their low notes and sing their high notes with mixed voice for stylistic purposes. That is why I consider it a "gray area" myself as to whether these terms have any meaning outside the world of opera.