Tim Foust (22,294 views)

[brookesquatchy]

Mar 17, 2023 9:55:57 GMT Steingrim said:

I think you've found a really good growl G1, better than the one at the link. The one in the next video was very airy and close to being non-melodic, he sounds tired to me.

Castellucci has a growl demonstration here : youtu.be/VyCDxVehjxI?t=153
Not as good as the first G1 you linked but it has a definite pitch.

If we take a look at the black bolded notes, the G1 is a subharmonic note. The B1s from "Amazing Grace" have a more pleasant tone, it's probably chest voice throughout.

You've been fairly respectful so far so I apologize if this comes off as rude but to be frank it doesn't seem you're particularly familiar with Tim's voice as a whole and additionally don't seem to be adept at identifying registration in singers' voices with whom you are not particularly familiar with. Aside from the befuddling usage of multiple prepositions to describe the relation between the videos I've sent, there's a good bit to address with what you've said here.

Firstly, the notion that a clearly sung note can be "close to being non-melodic" is a bit of an odd choice in phrasing. I think I understand what you mean in that the pitch is muddy but that doesn't remotely mean its non melodic or anything close to it.

Secondly, what was the purpose of sending a growl demonstration from someone who is not Tim Foust? If it's for the sake of reference I've fairly clearly described the trademark timbre of growl and understand the auditory discrepancies between it and Tim's implementation of chest voice/a chest-like M0 tone. If it's for comparison's sake the context and implementation of the note are so different it's hardly worth mentioning relative to Tim's growls. At best it's tangential and at worst is condescending.

Thirdly, his black bolded G1 is not a subharmonic. Tim has never demonstrated the capability to execute subharmonic notes intentionally to any capacity whatsoever. It was formerly believed his E1 in "Just Sing" was a subharmonic note and the parameters of grey text listed in the footnote as they applied to this thread were adjusted to account for such. However, it was determined fairly soon after this was implemented that said E1 lacked a fundamental tone an octave higher and therefore couldn't be a subharmonic, and the footnote was changed to exclude subharmonic notes as it did previously. All the while, Hillbilly Bone's G1 remained black, considering it is not a subharmonic, as it lacks the aforementioned fundamental necessary for the note to be in the undertone series. It is instead what some would colloquially call "chest-fry," which is a phrase used to describe the tonal quality of a type of M0 singing that maintains some level of chest-like resonance and timbre while still clearly being pulse registration akin to vocal fry, identifiable by its distinct rattle. It was determined by those with authority over this thread that said G1 was not overtly fryish enough to be categorized as strictly a fried note, and thus is formatted as black.

The G1s sung in live versions of Ain't Goin' Down seemingly aren't even attempted in growl, as in the recordings where he does not manage such a smooth tone as the ones presented he slips into something more reminiscent of his tone on the Hillbilly Bone G1, embodying a more fryish tone.

I'll give one last attempt at a case that growl and the former G1s sound fundamentally different on mic. Here he goes for what is definitely a G1 growl (I am awful at pitching low notes so admittedly my pitch may be off but that's beyond a shadow of a doubt a growl note) during Some Girls Do. At the same show, recorded on the same phone by the same person, there is a fundamental difference in the tonal clarity, overtone pattern, and the sound system's response to the sound being made by his voice in the G1 during their performance of Ain't Goin' Down. You could use that G1 or the one closer to the end of the song, the difference remains the same. As someone who has seen Home Free live 4 times and has been listening to them for over 6 years, I implore you to believe that I know what I'm talking about when I say I understand the markers of how do identify what register Tim is singing a contra octave note. And if you're thinking about arguing this point, a difference in vowel shape does not a difference like this make. Growl notes have such understated overtones and convey so much bass to the subwoofers that in a live setting, especially in the way Tim implements growls, the perceivable difference between a hum and an open vowel is actually fairly minimal in a growl register. Additionally, I have very seldom heard Tim use appropriate vowel sounds as open/bright as the one in the word "down" for live growl notes anyway. This note for example almost sounds like a lip buzz rather than the "I" vowel sound the original recording and natural pronunciation of the word fire have, and yet again, while the sound system is different, it audibly maintains an airy rattle that the Ain't Goin Down G1s lack. There are countless examples of Tim avoiding the use of vowel sounds on growls in live performances, where in the original he uses vowel sounds such as "ay" or "ow" or "ah" or what have you.

Idk what else I can tell you to convince you so if you still don't believe me then to each their own but I personally am quite literally 100% confident that is not a growl note. Believe what you want to believe it makes no difference to me

[Steingrim]

You sound like I'm trying to argue hard, which I'm not. Maybe it's a M0 note, a fry note with very little rattle. With all the techniques going on with low notes, this is very difficult.

[brookesquatchy]

sorry i went a bit hard in the paint there on u i wasnt trying to implicate an aggressive aura i think i just care a tad too much about home free considering its like a comfort band of mine for lack of a better term so i feel the need to assert my opinions in an argumentative nature regarding them. no hard feelings by any means. and i agree registration is hard to figure out sometimes and it going from mouth to stage mic to phone mic before the version we hear doesn't make it easier lol. sorry for enacting such an unnecessarily aggressive tone in that last message. also sorry for making it 50 million words long

[Steingrim]

Mar 18, 2023 11:10:11 GMT brookesquatchy said:

sorry i went a bit hard in the paint there on u i wasnt trying to implicate an aggressive aura i think i just care a tad too much about home free considering its like a comfort band of mine for lack of a better term so i feel the need to assert my opinions in an argumentative nature regarding them. no hard feelings by any means. and i agree registration is hard to figure out sometimes and it going from mouth to stage mic to phone mic before the version we hear doesn't make it easier lol. sorry for enacting such an unnecessarily aggressive tone in that last message. also sorry for making it 50 million words long

The G1 in question doesn't sound much like the good sung fry notes at the same pitch that I'm used to (the bolded one from "ring of fire" does). To me it looks like he's "capping" the microphone like Castellucci mentioned in the growl demo, and he was talking specifically about Tim Foust's growl technique. I agree that I'm not familiar with Tim Foust's voice, except for the occasional clip here and there. But good points, it doesn't take that long to read it.

Regarding subharmonics, opinions seem to differ on his ability with that. This is from Peter Hollens' home page, he has worked with Tim Foust. I don't know who wrote the actual article on his store page, though. store.peterhollens.com/blogs/news/legendary-vocals-presents-tim-foust
"..has mastered sub-harmonics.."

[brookesquatchy]

The last G1/F#1 in every version of Ring of Fire is a growl note homesprung. Including the studio version. That distinct airy husk gives it away. Plus it lacks the audible cut to it the Ain't Going Down G1s have. And I believe Geoff says Tim "cups" the microphone, referring to his hand being placed in such a way to siphon the sound to the capsule. That's maybe semantic but Tim does that a lot for notes that are definitely not growl, like here he does it for a B1 during a performance of Dive Bar Saints (he's the one on the far left just in case its hard to tell).

Idk why the Peter Hollens website says that lol. Subharmonics, by the nature of the undertone series that they function under, have a very distinct sound profile to them, and it's a sound profile not seen anywhere in Tim Foust's voice. I've combed over basically all of their discography out of some combination of boredom and intrigue and not once did I hear an intentional subharmonic note. I've heard through the grapevine that Tim has through some avenue admitted he is incapable of using subharmonics effectively, though the direct origin of those claims I'm not 100% sure of. Maybe an interview with a vocal coach like he's been known to partake in, not too sure. Nevertheless, you could take any note Tim ever sings and plug it into a spectrogram and the sonic profile will not be that of a subharmonic. I would know, because I've done that more than once to settle debates lol.

[Steingrim]

I believe I got confused by the evenness of the rattle in the note that I thought was subharmonic, so never mind that.

[md2002002]

Absolutely stonkin' low range from Tim here covering D1 - G2 live I think www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_2T99BQt04

[brookesquatchy]

we might finally have another black F♯1 on our hands with this one

[Dylan]

I know this thread hasn't been updated in a while, but I wanted to throw out there that Tim has really been pushing his low chest range over the past couple of years. Some recent notes that I would personally color black include:

F#1s from live versions of Your Man

F1s from live versions of Man of Constant Sorrow/Folsom Prison Blues and Timeless/Try Everything

And this E1 at the end of The Horses

[md2002002]

Not to mention this beefy now chest G1 from the new version of ring of fire youtu.be/hIhPmQMnSYs?si=ksKF6qWORQ8HDcSK

[Dylan]

I just went back and pitched the scream that I believe is from Tim around the 1 minute mark in this song, and I'm hearing it as a Bb5. It's not a particularly impressive note, but it also sounds pretty controlled? Any thoughts on whether it would be countable?

[brookesquatchy]

this may or may not be a black E♭1. it sounds a little meatier than his typical growls but it's also audibly airier sounding than his E1 in The Horses for example so idk

[mushymarionette]

Good B4 at 2:10

[bassmanmatteo]

Nov 10, 2024 20:32:11 GMT mushymarionette said:

Good B4 at 2:10

I don’t think that’s Tim on the B4. He goes into the G1 growl too quickly for it to be him.
Edit: ignore me, the wrong video played on my end. This is in fact a B4 from Tim.