Steingrim
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Post by Steingrim on Dec 19, 2023 21:44:27 GMT
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gravityworm
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Post by gravityworm on Dec 20, 2023 1:59:44 GMT
Μαρία Κάλλας sounds like a soprano to me.
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gravityworm
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Post by gravityworm on Dec 20, 2023 11:15:35 GMT
Μαρία Κάλλας sounds like a soprano to me. Did you know that Maria Callas' chest voice has been described as baritonal ? That early on, tutors thought she might be a contralto ? Oh, them tutors... I know someone who's voice was described by one tutor as a bass and by another tutor as an tenor...
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Steingrim
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Post by Steingrim on Dec 20, 2023 12:25:13 GMT
Did you know that Maria Callas' chest voice has been described as baritonal ? That early on, tutors thought she might be a contralto ? Oh, them tutors... I know someone who's voice was described by one tutor as a bass and by another tutor as an tenor... Maria Callas sang three octaves in an operatic context and according to her vocal coach she had a low C. She's more of a candidate for being an alto-soprano or soprano assoluto than Floor Jansen is. But both are considered dramatic sopranos by many sources. Which is not a bad voice type for a metal singer.
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gravityworm
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Post by gravityworm on Dec 20, 2023 12:50:52 GMT
And what did Katrin Sadolin say?
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BAZanine
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Post by BAZanine on Dec 20, 2023 14:51:59 GMT
Member Of: After Forever (1997-2009), Star One (2002-present), Revamp (2009-2016), Nightwish (2013-present), Northward (2017-present), Raskasta joulua (2017-present) Voice Type: Mezzo - Soprano with additional extended range Vocal Range: C3-F6 Again, on this forum whose mode of operations is largely disconnected from opera classifications, we gauge voice type based on timbre, not range. Range is at best an ancillary factor when we determine pop voice typings. It doesn't really matter to us if she has more overlap with the generally agreed-upon mezzo-soprano range when tonally she sounds like a soprano.
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gravityworm
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Post by gravityworm on Dec 20, 2023 18:48:08 GMT
Member Of: After Forever (1997-2009), Star One (2002-present), Revamp (2009-2016), Nightwish (2013-present), Northward (2017-present), Raskasta joulua (2017-present) Voice Type: Mezzo - Soprano with additional extended range Vocal Range: C3-F6 Again, on this forum whose mode of operations is largely disconnected from opera classifications, we gauge voice type based on timbre, not range. Range is at best an ancillary factor when we determine pop voice typings. It doesn't really matter to us if she has more overlap with the generally agreed-upon mezzo-soprano range when tonally she sounds like a soprano. So why use therms like "soprano", etc...
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Baronessa
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Post by Baronessa on Dec 20, 2023 21:56:25 GMT
Voice types are fun. Even in opera they are merely roles, based on the personality and age of the character being portrayed. Classical singers with certain kinds of voices are chosen to play those roles.
We do follow the operatic method of assigning voice types, contrary to popular belief, while asserting that singers are not "born with" a voice type. Voice types in pop reflect the personality (and sometimes age) of the singer themselves, not the character that they're portraying — because they are not a character. Pop singers were not born to play a role in pop music, they make their own roles, and we try to interpret those roles based on our personal opinions and precedents set by other singers we've heard.
People have gotten tired of voice type discussions, sure, but I think that's because it started out as something we didn't really think about. It just seemed cool. And now we've had the same argument we're having now for the 12th year in a row. I encourage using voice types if that's what you want to do, but I also recommend introspecting as to why you're using them. Keeping that in mind would hopefully lead to some more engaging discussions than this same one over and over again.
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Post by Goober on Dec 20, 2023 23:21:27 GMT
her first name is floor..... that's crazy
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Steingrim
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Post by Steingrim on Dec 21, 2023 9:36:11 GMT
Voice types are fun. Even in opera they are merely roles, based on the personality and age of the character being portrayed. Classical singers with certain kinds of voices are chosen to play those roles. We do follow the operatic method of assigning voice types, contrary to popular belief, while asserting that singers are not "born with" a voice type. Voice types in pop reflect the personality (and sometimes age) of the singer themselves, not the character that they're portraying — because they are not a character. Pop singers were not born to play a role in pop music, they make their own roles, and we try to interpret those roles based on our personal opinions and precedents set by other singers we've heard. People have gotten tired of voice type discussions, sure, but I think that's because it started out as something we didn't really think about. It just seemed cool. And now we've had the same argument we're having now for the 12th year in a row. I encourage using voice types if that's what you want to do, but I also recommend introspecting as to why you're using them. Keeping that in mind would hopefully lead to some more engaging discussions than this same one over and over again. In opera, fachs define roles. For instance, the fach "basso buffo"means "comical bass". The basic voice types are more physical in nature. Basso in Italian simply means "low". Soprano means "over, on top of" (the others).
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Steingrim
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Post by Steingrim on Dec 21, 2023 11:25:42 GMT
And a fach is literally just a range of notes. The fach has the singer, the singer does not have the fach. It has an associated range that the singer is expected to sing well and with sufficient volume. And a weight (dramatic, lyric etc), a color/timbre and expected passaggi. The passaggi lead the voice to behave in a certain way when singing in that area. The basic voice types : bass, baritone, tenor, contralto, mezzo, soprano - don't have roles associated with them. It is more likely that the tenor is a lover and the bass is a villain, for instance, but that is more of a matter of statistics. Given the volume requirements in opera, it is likely that a pop singer is quite able to sing well substantially lower on a microphone than the voice type suggests that they would be able to in an opera setting. The note sung may also be "good enough" given its context in the song, even though it isn't up to operatic standards. Floor Jansen's bolded D3, for instance. Or baritones some times hitting octave 5 in chest voice. The introducton of additional registers makes things even more complicated. Fry notes and growls, superthin notes and screams used in heavy metal etc.
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gravityworm
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Post by gravityworm on Dec 21, 2023 15:55:35 GMT
The tessitura has the singer, the singer does not have the tessitura? Maybe... Floor sounds to me like a mezzo - soprano
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Steingrim
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Post by Steingrim on Dec 21, 2023 17:18:51 GMT
Yeah, but Tarja was like 6-years-old when she started training, like an old school opera kid. I guess she doesn't leave as much room for the imagination as Floor does. Since Floor Jansen's studies started at the Dutch Rock Academy, I suppose there's a difference. But not necessarily in ability. Interview from 2006 : www.metalsymphony.com/interview-with-floor-jansen/
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gravityworm
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Post by gravityworm on Mar 1, 2024 6:48:10 GMT
Yeah, but Tarja was like 6-years-old when she started training, like an old school opera kid. I guess she doesn't leave as much room for the imagination as Floor does. That's a surprise. She sounds like a person who had no opera style training at all. To my ears. She sounds like SLS trained singer to me.
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gravityworm
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Post by gravityworm on Mar 1, 2024 6:50:20 GMT
Did you know that Maria Callas' chest voice has been described as baritonal ? That early on, tutors thought she might be a contralto ? At what age? I would like to hear Kate Sadolin's opinion.
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Steingrim
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Post by Steingrim on Mar 1, 2024 9:12:12 GMT
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