Controversial Notes and Pitching Help (14,517 views)

[Electric Mami]

The harmony is a G#5

[EddieCheivz]

Well, title says it all lol a random and fussy (and humble) request: what would be lowest countable there? I'm not sure where to post this. Thanks!


www.4shared.com/mp3/A9j27yAajq/PTT-20240412-WA0035__online-au.html?

EDIT: The post was moved here, I was not. I'm aware here looks kinda random.

[Hennessy Macklemore III]

I just remembered that we seemed to face a good deal of disagreement over this note in the Ronnie James Dio thread when I first brought it up. Personally I'm quite certain that Dio is hitting an overtoney B♭5 and Tony Iommi is playing a D5 on guitar at the same time. However, as I recall some people were hearing it as the opposite (that Iommi was playing a B♭5 while Dio sang a D5), and then some people were somehow hearing E♭5s from both of them or something.

Anyway, I figure it's about time to reopen that debate, because I think the note never got added to Dio's thread due to the disagreement over it.

[Electric Mami]

Guitar is in D standard, due to how their fingers are positioned as seen on the clip, and due to the second string ringing open on A right before that double stop on fret 12, string 1 and fret 15, string 2 that we see on the screen as Dio does his scream. The guitarist bends the second string and does a vibrato to reach the same note and octave as on the first string, which gives this oscillating pitch around D. Dio is the one doing the B♭6 overtone (yes 6, we just said 5 because we're used to calling fundamentals an octave lower). The fundamental of the scream is a sharp F5

[VocalDudeGuy]

I think the note at 0:58 is a C#6 from Sean Kinney, but I want to get other opinions before I do anything with it

[amadeusd]

May 15, 2024 15:46:10 GMT VocalDudeGuy said:

I think the note at 0:58 is a C#6 from Sean Kinney

It appears to be, yes.

[mangellain]

Hi, When I get this note it gives me G#5 but I feel that the final part of the note goes up to an A5 but I couldn't get it.

[Electric Mami]

You're correct, it does touch A5 by the end indeed

[rootyrootz]

I would like some opinions on dis shriek if you got em.

Edit: I'm sorry, admins, I did not read as in-depth as I should have. I would delete this and repost on the ODB thread if I could...

[VocalDudeGuy]

I'm hearing it peak at D6 personality. Decent shriek tho, 6/10 would count it probably.

[Electric Mami]

akshuwally it's an overtoney D5 🤓 ☝️

[rootyrootz]

Jun 2, 2024 0:01:29 GMT Electric Mami said:

akshuwally it's an overtoney D5 🤓 ☝️

This was my assumption but I couldn't be sure (he's the first singer I've done with any real distorted notes and I'm used to just listening for a single pitch)

Thank you, friends!

[Goober]

  4:49. alright team what do we think of this. i'm personally very much hearing F#6, but discord people said it might be F#5

[amadeusd]

Jun 7, 2024 23:20:05 GMT Goober said:

i'm personally very much hearing F#6

I heard as F#6 too, personally.

[motorist]

I'm trying to find the lowest note in this passage (linked). <<< edit: this is what I sent through discord.
This is the entire song, the section in question is at 2:33

The lyrics are "You can't look away" (pause) "tonight".
amadeusd said he hears an E3, on the syllable to-NIGHT, and possibly on a-WAY. I thought I heard an E3 on "a-WAY" but reconsidered as I heard the bass was also an E, and though I think an E3 on the to-NIGHT syllable is more likely I'm still unsure.
I am hearing an F#3 on "TO-night", and also (less sure but still audible to me) another F#3 on "A-way". I can't quite make out the lower vocals on "to-NIGHT", amadeus heard E3, I hear either E3 or G3, mami doesn't hear lower vocals and just gets C4.

Electric Mami didn't hear any lower 3rd octave vocal line and only heard one vocal line going B4-A4-G4-B3-G4-B3-C4, syllables you-can't-look-a-way-to-night

I do hear a higher vocal line, but I'm hearing it going B4-A4-G4-(pause)-G4 on the syllables you-can't-look-a-way though, which I think is similar to the same as the higher line in the more audible "you can't look away" harmony at 2:18 in the song, which bottoms out at F#4 here: shelovesyouclip3.mp3 (110.24 KB)
The F#4 is where I hear the pause in the higher vocal line, so if the lower harmony is an octave unison from that it would bottom out at F#3 in that case. I do hear an F#3 in that pause in the original questionable passage (on A-way).

However, that lower harmony could also be an octave below a different vocal harmony, namely the one at 2:25 in the song, here: shelovesyouclip4.mp3 (94.73 KB)
This bottoms at E4, which would mean the lower line on the questionable passage ends at E3 (on a-WAY).

SPOILER: Click to show

{Why I don't think I'm imagining the lower vocal line - maybe not so relevant, not set in stone}
I hear some breathiness in the vocal line which would indicate a lower harmony.
At the very beginning of the clip I linked (on the line "time will pass you by") I believe there's an A3 in a lower harmony on the word "you", as it sounds the same as the non-obscured version of the vocal line, here (also at 2:11 in the original song): shelovesyouclip2.mp3 (126.15 KB)

To me, the vocal line "you can't look away - tonight" sounds like it has vocals beyond the line starting at B4 that are lower than the "time will pass you by" harmony bottoming at A3.

[amadeusd]

Jun 19, 2024 23:52:09 GMT motorist said:

I'm trying to find the lowest note in this passage (linked).
This is the entire song, the section in question is at 2:33

The lyrics are "You can't look away" (pause) "tonight".
amadeusd said he hears an E3, on the syllable to-NIGHT, and possibly on a-WAY. I thought I heard an E3 on "a-WAY" but reconsidered as I heard the bass was also an E, and though I think an E3 on the to-NIGHT syllable is more likely I'm still unsure.
I am hearing an F#3 on "TO-night", and also (less sure but still audible to me) another F#3 on "A-way". I can't quite make out the lower vocals on "to-NIGHT", amadeus heard E3, I hear either E3 or G3, mami doesn't hear lower vocals and just gets C4.

Electric Mami didn't hear any lower 3rd octave vocal line and only heard one vocal line going B4-A4-G4-B3-G4-B3-C4, syllables you-can't-look-a-way-to-night

I do hear a higher vocal line, but I'm hearing it going B4-A4-G4-(pause)-G4 on the syllables you-can't-look-a-way though, which I think is similar to the same as the higher line in the more audible "you can't look away" harmony at 2:18 in the song, which bottoms out at F#4 here: View Attachment
The F#4 is where I hear the pause in the higher vocal line, so if the lower harmony is an octave unison from that it would bottom out at F#3 in that case. I do hear an F#3 in that pause in the original questionable passage (on A-way).

However, that lower harmony could also be an octave below a different vocal harmony, namely the one at 2:25 in the song, here: View Attachment
This bottoms at E4, which would mean the lower line on the questionable passage ends at E3 (on a-WAY).

SPOILER: Click to show

{Why I don't think I'm imagining the lower vocal line - maybe not so relevant, not set in stone}
I hear some breathiness in the vocal line which would indicate a lower harmony.
At the very beginning of the clip I linked (on the line "time will pass you by") I believe there's an A3 in a lower harmony on the word "you", as it sounds the same as the non-obscured version of the vocal line, here (also at 2:11 in the original song): View Attachment

To me, the vocal line "you can't look away - tonight" sounds like it has vocals beyond the line starting at B4 that are lower than the "time will pass you by" harmony bottoming at A3.

For my part, the explanation for why I'm  - relatively - confident the E3 is there, is that in the original recording I immediately picked up the E2 in the bassline and noted that it came across as purely an interaction between the higher E4 and the bass line creating a sort of intermediate 'harmonic' as it were. I believe(but could be wrong) that Mami and I agreed on that aspect of the original recording.

I only diverged once Motorist provided a much clearer clip of that passage (I imagine this is the last link in the quoted post above but I cannot check on a work computer). In that clip, the bass line is much much weaker and I'm hearing, distinctly, a voice in the 'choral' backing vocals getting the same effect as what I have previously thought was the Bassline+higher vocal without any of the 'sub' quality you get from bass (or, guitar in general really). 
I have not yet attempted to isolate this from that clearer clip. That might help solve the issue and If I do get a good isolation Ill let motorist know and he can update whatever needs updating... assuming it helps. 

[mangellain]

Hi, can you help me with this?

I have discussed this with a Masatoshi Ono Fan friend and with Hennymack, Hen told me that it could be a Bb5 but others have told me that it is A5, what is the real note?

[Electric Mami]

I think it's a little closer to Bb5

[j]

How do people generally go about notewatching microtones other than quarter tones, specifically microtonal notes from non-Western music? For example, I have read that classical Indian music makes frequent use of microtones, all of which seem to have names, but to identify and categorize each of these notes seems both extraordinarily difficult and extremely unwieldy to read (and would also raise issues around which note system you would use). On the other hand, these microtones are notes that the singer is performing intentionally, and simply rounding them to the nearest note or ignoring them altogether seems like it would fail to capture the entirety of the singer's range.

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question, since it's not a question about a specific note, but I have been listening to more non-Western artists lately and I wanted to know about how others would categorize notes like these before I notewatched any of those artists. I would assume that the methods people use to categorize these notes differ depending on the person and the scales that are being used, but if anyone knows of any specific methods for categorizing them or any non-Western artists who make use of microtones that have pages on this site, please let me know. Thanks!

[Electric Mami]

I think this fits the thread's topic so don't worry haha
As for an answer, it's just super uncommon but we do label microtones if they're recurrently used as an intentional part of the person's singing. Take Jacob Collier for instance. So there's the semi-sharp symbol 𝄲 and the semi-flat symbol 𝄳. However if it's the singer using the conventional tonal system but choosing to go for a bluesy feel by singing the note half a semitone lower for instance, we usually round up, since it's usually for very few occurences rather than a considerable part of their music

[mangellain]

Hi, I Have a Question, It's a G5 or G#5?

[Electric Mami]

Sept 2, 2024 5:02:57 GMT mangellain said:

Hi, I Have a Question, It's a G5 or G#5?

Slightly sharp A5

[j]

Aug 25, 2024 2:34:35 GMT Electric Mami said:

I think this fits the thread's topic so don't worry haha
As for an answer, it's just super uncommon but we do label microtones if they're recurrently used as an intentional part of the person's singing. Take Jacob Collier for instance. So there's the semi-sharp symbol 𝄲 and the semi-flat symbol 𝄳. However if it's the singer using the conventional tonal system but choosing to go for a bluesy feel by singing the note half a semitone lower for instance, we usually round up, since it's usually for very few occurences rather than a considerable part of their music

Okay, thanks   do you know of any other musicians with pages who make frequent use of microtones? Besides Jacob Collier, the few I know of don't seem to have a page yet.

[Electric Mami]

I don't know any other singer who uses microtones on top of my head no. It's so uncommon

[mangellain]

Hi, Could you help me get this note?