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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 15:57:15 GMT
I have to agree with BAZanine on this debate. For other singers, I think the Eb1 and B1 would be perfectly countable. However, since Elvis is such a powerful and awe-inspiring singer, those notes might not be up to Elvis’ very high standards. Plus, the growled F#1 that is counted is a much stronger note than either the Eb1 or the B1. |
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BAZanine
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Post by BAZanine on Jun 5, 2022 19:11:04 GMT
Where's the A6 from "Thrill Of Your Love" ? I hope you're joking but if you're not that's the track number. Side A, track 6. Bold suggestion: The G#4 from "He Touched Me". Definitely one of his best notes in my opinion, and certainly more bold-worthy than most of the other bolds in the thread Anyhow, with a more civil tongue, I will grant you that this is a fair enough take. I didn't bold it initially because it just has that sort of hnnnnnnng sound to it but it does make up for it in sustain. I'll bold that now. |
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Post by Steingrim on Jun 5, 2022 19:30:10 GMT
Where's the A6 from "Thrill Of Your Love" ? I hope you're joking but if you're not that's the track number. Side A, track 6. The appearance of a "B1" in the vicinity of the song in question "Such a night" confused me for a moment. But you're right, A6 would be a bit high, even for Elvis. A lush Eb1 sounds more likely, actually. |
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Post by motorist on Jun 5, 2022 19:44:25 GMT
Plus, the growled F#1 that is counted is a much stronger note than either the Eb1 or the B1. I don't understand how you hear that at all. The F#1 has less tone and is more airy than both the Eb1 and the B1 - clearly, in my opinion. It's held out for longer than the Eb1 but that doesn't really make it more countable, as neither the B1 or the Eb1 are short enough to be considered anacrusis anyway, and toned vocal fry is a classic component of his vocals. So the statement about the Eb1 not holding up to Elvis's 'standards' is strange as well, considering that's one of the reasons I find it to be countable despite it only appearing once in the song. It wouldn't be countable for other vocalists.. the opposite of what you're saying here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 20:20:46 GMT
Where's the A6 from "Thrill Of Your Love" ? I hope you're joking but if you're not that's the track number. Side A, track 6. Bold suggestion: The G#4 from "He Touched Me". Definitely one of his best notes in my opinion, and certainly more bold-worthy than most of the other bolds in the thread Anyhow, with a more civil tongue, I will grant you that this is a fair enough take. I didn't bold it initially because it just has that sort of hnnnnnnng sound to it but it does make up for it in sustain. I'll bold that now. Thanks for bolding the G#4. Also, I think the C5 from "America the Beautiful" is pretty good, so maybe it could be bolded as well. (However, I don't feel as strongly about the C5, so I'll leave that decision up to you) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 20:40:48 GMT
Plus, the growled F#1 that is counted is a much stronger note than either the Eb1 or the B1. I don't understand how you hear that at all. The F#1 has less tone and is more airy than both the Eb1 and the B1 - clearly, in my opinion. It's held out for longer than the Eb1 but that doesn't really make it more countable, as neither the B1 or the Eb1 are short enough to be considered anacrusis anyway, and toned vocal fry is a classic component of his vocals. So the statement about the Eb1 not holding up to Elvis's 'standards' is strange as well, considering that's one of the reasons I find it to be countable despite it only appearing once in the song. It wouldn't be countable for other vocalists.. the opposite of what you're saying here. Regardless of whether or not the F#1 is countable, it still doesn't change the fact that the Eb1 isn't. Plus, it's BAZanine's thread. He should be able to include or exclude whatever notes he wants. |
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Post by motorist on Jun 5, 2022 21:14:28 GMT
Regardless of whether or not the F#1 is countable, it still doesn't change the fact that the Eb1 isn't. Plus, it's Braden's thread. He should be able to include or exclude whatever notes he wants. Plus, the growled F#1 that is counted is a much stronger note than either the Eb1 or the B1. You used comparison as a reason for counting the F#1 and not the other notes, which I called you out on, and now you're backtracking on that and basically saying that they shouldn't be compared. Hilarious backwards logic. Also stating your opinions as facts - which you did in both posts - doesn't count as evidence - which I actually took time to include in my posts. I think the Eb1 has enough tone and is representative enough of his vocals to be counted, and have gone over my reasons why already. Anyway the second point is an odd thing to say considering that these threads are not supposed to be based on a single person's opinion, but rather basic guidelines and consensus. I've seen owners' opinions on notes differ from those in their threads (Kyo's A1s in Ihatemana's thread and the color of Mike Patton's bolded C6 in Platypus's thread), so there is some relevance to debating them. Though it does seem most are not in favor of counting the Eb1 for now. edit: okay I misunderstood and it seems you aren't a fan of counting any of the growled notes, it was impossible to tell because of your weird general opinion-facts. But whatever, my points still remain. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 21:16:16 GMT
I wish there were links for some of the other growls because the F♯1 sounds pretty weird to me and I'm not sure if it's the most representative note of that part of his register. Actually, I’ve heard most of the growls in the thread (the only ones I couldn’t find were the A1s), and the F#1 is his strongest growl by far. Personally, I wouldn’t count any of the growls as part of his range though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 21:32:13 GMT
Regardless of whether or not the F#1 is countable, it still doesn't change the fact that the Eb1 isn't. Plus, it's Braden's thread. He should be able to include or exclude whatever notes he wants. Plus, the growled F#1 that is counted is a much stronger note than either the Eb1 or the B1. You used comparison as a reason for counting the F#1 and not the other notes, which I called you out on, and now you're backtracking on that and basically saying that they shouldn't be compared. Hilarious backwards logic. Also stating your opinions as facts - which you did in both posts - doesn't count as evidence - which I actually took time to include in my posts. I think the Eb1 has enough tone and is representative enough of his vocals to be counted, and have gone over my reasons why already. Anyway the second point is an odd thing to say considering that these threads are not supposed to be based on personal opinion, but rather basic guidelines and consensus. I've seen owners' opinions on notes differ from those in their threads (Kyo's A1s in Ihatemana's thread and the color of Mike Patton's bolded C6 in Platypus's thread), so there is some relevance to debating them. Though it does seem most are not in favor of counting the Eb1 for now. First of all, I think you’re getting way too fired up about this. It’s just a vocal range thread. Calm down. Secondly, I’m not saying the F#1 and the Eb1 shouldn’t be compared. I’m saying they’re both non-countable notes, but one is clearly better than the other. Both notes are literally just random growls and are in no way “representative of his vocals”. Personally, I think it’s bullshit that any of the growls are being counted, but it’s not my place to decide that, nor is it yours. Really, the only person who I think is entitled to make that decision is BAZanine, since he knows Elvis’ voice better than anyone here, including me and you. Considering the fact that he has listened to nearly every known recording of Elvis and took the time to meticulously make this thread, I think he’s entitled to make this decision. This is a ridiculous debate to be having. Having this argument with me will change nothing. If you want the thread changed so badly, talk to BAZanine. However, I doubt he’d include such a low-quality note as the Eb1 in his thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 21:46:19 GMT
Wait. If Elvis just died, and he was the king of rock and roll, then who should the next king of rock and roll be? I vote to make it Prince since traditionally, in these forms of government, it is the prince who is voted to be the next king after one king dies. I vote Paul Anka. He’s pretty much the only decent singer who’s still alive. |
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Post by kaji on Jun 5, 2022 21:49:38 GMT
Wait. If Elvis just died, and he was the king of rock and roll, then who should the next king of rock and roll be? I vote to make it Prince since traditionally, in these forms of government, it is the prince who is voted to be the next king after one king dies. I vote Paul Anka. He’s pretty much the only decent singer who’s still alive. There’s dozens of traditional pop singers still alive with a far greater technical skill vocally than Anka. They just likely would not apply to the ‘rock and roll’ category. And honestly, I’m not even sure I’d put Anka there either. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 21:51:03 GMT
I vote Paul Anka. He’s pretty much the only decent singer who’s still alive. There’s dozens of traditional pop singers still alive with a far greater technical skill vocally than Anka. The only other three I can think of offhand are Neil Sedaka, Tony Bennett, and Franki Valli. |
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Post by kaji on Jun 5, 2022 21:52:31 GMT
There’s dozens of traditional pop singers still alive with a far greater technical skill vocally than Anka. The only other three I can think of offhand are Neil Sedaka, Tony Bennett, and Franki Valli. Johnny Mathis! |
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Post by motorist on Jun 5, 2022 22:15:54 GMT
First of all, I think you’re getting way too fired up about this. It’s just a vocal range thread. Calm down. Secondly, I’m not saying the F#1 and the Eb1 shouldn’t be compared. I’m saying they’re both non-countable notes, but one is clearly better than the other. Both notes are literally just random growls and are in no way “representative of his vocals”. Personally, I think it’s bullshit that any of the growls are being counted, but it’s not my place to decide that, Mentioning how you think I should talk directly to Braden (even though he sees these messages) or how you think I'm getting angry etc. ignores the actual purpose of these threads - to discuss the singer, which is what I was doing originally before you started talking about ownership of the thread (which I already knew) and statements of opinion as fact. Growls are not typically as countable as higher falsetto and require more intentional pitching AND presence in work to be counted, but I think many of Elvis's growls fall under both of those, including the Eb1. I've already gone over my reasons why I'm saying this - if you don't think this is something that should be talked about, don't respond then. |
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Post by Brenda on Jun 5, 2022 22:43:38 GMT
I wish there were links for some of the other growls because the F♯1 sounds pretty weird to me and I'm not sure if it's the most representative note of that part of his register. Actually, I’ve heard most of the growls in the thread (the only ones I couldn’t find were the A1s), and the F#1 is his strongest growl by far. Personally, I wouldn’t count any of the growls as part of his range though. Yeah, idk, if the F♯1 is the best one, I wouldn't count them either, without growls his range would still be pretty darn good, C2 – A5. |
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Post by BAZanine on Jun 6, 2022 0:04:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2022 2:34:02 GMT
While we’re on the topic of growls, I think the G#1 from that live performance of “Hound Dog” is one of his few countable growls.
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Post by BAZanine on Jun 6, 2022 6:48:16 GMT
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Post by BAZanine on Jun 6, 2022 8:22:28 GMT
Yeah see I'm not really personally going by sustain or this that and the other thing, I'm just going by the fact that there's a very noticeable "rattle" in the tone that tips me off to it being a growl. None of his chest notes resonate that way, let alone ones that low. As for the, erm, vocal-normative notes (to avoid the risk of being cancelled of course), I wouldn't say they're of low quality, although they are short. Nay, I'd say tonally most of them are surprisingly strong for Elvis, who traditionally starts crapping out around F2/E2. This leads me to believe that later on in his career he actually got the hang of mix fry to some degree.
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Post by Steingrim on Jun 6, 2022 18:24:31 GMT
Yeah see I'm not really personally going by sustain or this that and the other thing, I'm just going by the fact that there's a very noticeable "rattle" in the tone that tips me off to it being a growl. None of his chest notes resonate that way, let alone ones that low. As for the, erm, vocal-normative notes (to avoid the risk of being cancelled of course), I wouldn't say they're of low quality, although they are short. Nay, I'd say tonally most of them are surprisingly strong for Elvis, who traditionally starts crapping out around F2/E2. This leads me to believe that later on in his career he actually got the hang of mix fry to some degree. A singer with some mastery of the M0 (vocal fry) register will be able to sing lower than they are able to in the M1 (chest) register, without noticeable "rattle". Listen to the bolded E2, the "farther along" rehearsal (there are many E2s throughout the recording). Those are M1 and his projection is a bit wobbly at times. Some of his lower notes are probably M1 but it doesn't have to be the ones that sound the best. What sounds best, a too-low chest note, a slightly rattly fry note or an outright growl, is probably a matter of personal preference. To me the Eb1 growl sounds like someone recorded a fart then transposed it down an octave or two. |
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