Lowest notes sung by tenors (7,827 views)

[bassmanmatteo]

Oct 12, 2023 14:18:12 GMT Steingrim said:

After the C2 scale, at 0:40. A-G#-F#-E-D-C#-B

He just doesn't tell you where the scale ended.

Thanks! I somehow missed this one.

[Steingrim]

Oct 13, 2023 1:55:26 GMT bassmanmatteo said:

Oct 12, 2023 14:18:12 GMT Steingrim said:

After the C2 scale, at 0:40. A-G#-F#-E-D-C#-B

He just doesn't tell you where the scale ended.

Thanks! I somehow missed this one.

The audience would laugh themselves silly if he sang the lowest notes at the opera. On a mike, with real time dynamic compression, bass boosting and so forth, who knows what it would sound like. But at some point he ought to switch registers, that would sound better. His good Fs prove his baritone capability, and that is the main point of that sequence.

Oct 12, 2023 23:51:22 GMT kaji said:

Oct 12, 2023 23:42:38 GMT Henny Macc said:

So are you gonna say which one or

Elvis, and not because of his high notes. His C#4-F4 to be exact. And I do not think this is such a rare opinion. I've spoken to many people who study voice either contemporary or classical who have said the same. 

Then there's Elvis lower extension which enabled him to sing really decent G2s, that was a staple live note for him. Even if his passaggi are in the low tenor category, the extension pulls his timbre and weight down towards baritone. 

[kaji]

Oct 13, 2023 9:22:52 GMT Steingrim said:

Oct 13, 2023 1:55:26 GMT bassmanmatteo said:

Thanks! I somehow missed this one.

The audience would laugh themselves silly if he sang the lowest notes at the opera. On a mike, with real time dynamic compression, bass boosting and so forth, who knows what it would sound like. But at some point he ought to switch registers, that would sound better. His good Fs prove his baritone capability, and that is the main point of that sequence.

Oct 12, 2023 23:51:22 GMT kaji said:

Elvis, and not because of his high notes. His C#4-F4 to be exact. And I do not think this is such a rare opinion. I've spoken to many people who study voice either contemporary or classical who have said the same. 

Then there's Elvis lower extension which enabled him to sing really decent G2s, that was a staple live note for him. Even if his passaggi are in the low tenor category, the extension pulls his timbre and weight down towards baritone. 

I am notewatching Michael and also know him and spoke to him about this. As much as he does have very good low notes, they do not actually carry well in the theatre under a G, or G♯. It’s very quiet comparably, and he has far more facility and warmth in the tenor range live than in baritone. He has also sang a pop songs concert before and used a neutral timbre there which exposed his voice.

[Steingrim]

Oct 13, 2023 12:34:11 GMT kaji said:

Oct 13, 2023 9:22:52 GMT Steingrim said:

The audience would laugh themselves silly if he sang the lowest notes at the opera. On a mike, with real time dynamic compression, bass boosting and so forth, who knows what it would sound like. But at some point he ought to switch registers, that would sound better. His good Fs prove his baritone capability, and that is the main point of that sequence.

Then there's Elvis lower extension which enabled him to sing really decent G2s, that was a staple live note for him. Even if his passaggi are in the low tenor category, the extension pulls his timbre and weight down towards baritone. 

I am notewatching Michael and also know him and spoke to him about this. As much as he does have very good low notes, they do not actually carry well in the theatre under a G, or G♯. It’s very quiet comparably, and he has far more facility and warmth in the tenor range live than in baritone. He has also sang a pop songs concert before and used a neutral timbre there which exposed his voice.

He used to train as an operatic baritone, and he was very ambitious. So it couldn't have been that bad. A carrying G2 is more than enough for most baritone roles. But his C5 is stellar.

[kaji]

Oct 13, 2023 13:16:07 GMT Steingrim said:

Oct 13, 2023 12:34:11 GMT kaji said:

I am notewatching Michael and also know him and spoke to him about this. As much as he does have very good low notes, they do not actually carry well in the theatre under a G, or G♯. It’s very quiet comparably, and he has far more facility and warmth in the tenor range live than in baritone. He has also sang a pop songs concert before and used a neutral timbre there which exposed his voice.

He used to train as an operatic baritone, and he was very ambitious. So it couldn't have been that bad. A carrying G2 is more than enough for most baritone roles. But his C5 is stellar.

That's not exactly what happened. In the operatic training you very often start training as a lower voice due to several reasons:

• either the range is not there yet, as was in the case of Gina Cigna who did not have any notes above E5 until her training with Emma Calve, and even then it took a while but eventually took her up to a D6
• the voice is not comfortable singing up there 
• the student's teacher finds that the higher repertoire is not suited for the student's character or the quality they currently have (there are some light mezzo-soprano roles that young sopranos often sing or comprimario contralto roles - the same applies for tenors singing baritone roles and what's not)

In the case of Michael it was the fact that his voice sat quite a bit lower than most tenors and his voice had always carried a considerable density as he is a bigger voice, which he is very honest about. He assumed he must be a baritone initially because he did not have notes consistently above a G-sharp and had a thicker voice. Then he was discovered to be a tenor through training. The same happened with Cigna, Tetrazzini, even Erna Sack who all started training or even CAREERS as mezzo-sopranos and contraltos. Some tenors started by singing stuff as low as... bass roles, as was the case with Lauritz Melchior who had sung 2 bass roles and then had a career of singing baritone successfully for a few years before switching to singing tenor. This was not really the case with Michael. He trained without a specific voice type but with the goal to be a tenor, and did a few baritone roles earlier on as he did not want to strain his voice prematurely and... it was easier to get baritone roles as the competition was lesser. 

As for carrying low notes in a theatre. When I say Michael carries a G2 live, it is only a G2 that is fully-exposed without any music. He like most tenors, and most men quite frankly will not be able to be audible singing with orchestration in the second octave. A good example of him failing at it is in his recording of Rossini's Otello live which is with a light orchestration, and even then the low A proves to be quite a trouble. By comparison, in his baritone recordings which we unfortunately do not have many of, Lauritz Melchior does not have this trouble. Neither does Ramon Vinay (who in my opinion was naturally a baritone who sang zwischenfach and developed a tenor range) who even in his bass roles carried well, even with orchestration, and Verdian orchestration might I add.

Michael is very ambitious and keeps getting better and I am very thankful for that, as it is good to have a male singer, especially a tenor who still keeps the art going in the current opera field and truly studies the operatic history and musicology surrounding it. 


 

[Steingrim]

Power in the lower range tells the story of voice types at the opera. Or the ability to pierce through with the really low notes. I was at an opera based concert last Saturday. The soprano had enormously loud high notes but her low notes were barely audible from the second balcony. The bass had no problem carrying notes down to about G or F, the lowest note. It's not that that note was loud, but it had a piercing quality that carried it throughout the hall.

Not all bass roles have notes that are that low, though. I suppose that is why Caruso got away with singing bass roles some times. Here's Michael Spyres impersonating Cesare Siepi. I think it bottoms out at B2 and loud doesn't seem to be a problem, at least. www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZw9M32azCk

[kaji]

Oct 13, 2023 20:06:29 GMT Steingrim said:

Power in the lower range tells the story of voice types at the opera. Or the ability to pierce through with the really low notes. I was at an opera based concert last Saturday. The soprano had enormously loud high notes but her low notes were barely audible from the second balcony. The bass had no problem carrying notes down to about G or F, the lowest note. It's not that that note was loud, but it had a piercing quality that carried it throughout the hall.

Not all bass roles have notes that are that low, though. I suppose that is why Caruso got away with singing bass roles some times. Here's Michael Spyres impersonating Cesare Siepi. I think it bottoms out at B2 and loud doesn't seem to be a problem, at least. www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZw9M32azCk

Mike told me that this was recorded in the morning and while he can get the notes themselves, the timbre is never that bassy during the day.

Interesting, I heard La forza del destino a week and half ago and the soprano (Sondra Radvanovsky) was as loud on the low notes (B-flat in that opera) as the tenor was on notes the same pitch. 

[Steingrim]

Ramon Vinay, that's an impressively versatile opera singer.

Here he ends on a piercing F2 in Don Carlos, a bass role : youtu.be/zeUj037GDS8?si=GnNkqiDSPZvntDX2&t=486
The instrumentation is moderate.

Here he sings, to my ears, a very good Bb4 in Carmen : youtu.be/ZS_oYqVP5s8?si=VFu8G6Pn1o_Nubwx&t=12

I'm thinking that he must be a baritone with unusually high passaggi.

Some of the live recordings of Michael Spyres in "Ah! sì, per voi già sento" from Otello are of a poor quality, here's one that's a bit clearer. youtu.be/JCsP-SUUTbo?si=Xy6MsxKWFoLJ0yfb&t=24

His short A2 seems to have some power, but it lacks that piercing quality that the basses are especially good at producing. One gets the feeling that he's a tenor.

Here he sings his way from a roaring F#5 in mixed voice to a more modest F#2.
youtu.be/_3Clm14dAPw?si=wLDkpnL4H3EUyhIP&t=329

[wbradycall]

Oct 14, 2023 8:03:59 GMT Steingrim said:

Ramon Vinay, that's an impressively versatile opera singer.

Here he ends on a piercing F2 in Don Carlos, a bass role : youtu.be/zeUj037GDS8?si=GnNkqiDSPZvntDX2&t=486
The instrumentation is moderate.

Here he sings, to my ears, a very good Bb4 in Carmen : youtu.be/ZS_oYqVP5s8?si=VFu8G6Pn1o_Nubwx&t=12

I'm thinking that he must be a baritone with unusually high passaggi.

Some of the live recordings of Michael Spyres in "Ah! sì, per voi già sento" from Otello are of a poor quality, here's one that's a bit clearer. youtu.be/JCsP-SUUTbo?si=Xy6MsxKWFoLJ0yfb&t=24

His short A2 seems to have some power, but it lacks that piercing quality that the basses are especially good at producing. One gets the feeling that he's a tenor.

Here he sings his way from a roaring F#5 in mixed voice to a more modest F#2.
youtu.be/_3Clm14dAPw?si=wLDkpnL4H3EUyhIP&t=329

I don't think Ramon Vinay was the one who sang the F2 in Don Carlos.

[Homelander]

I know G2 isn't incredibly low for someone of Robin Gibb's placement, but his G2s from "Silent Night" are pretty solid if you ask me.

1:21

2:36

3:51

[Yojojo]

The main way for a tenor to go reeeeeal low is growling. For example, Jack Black has growled his way down to G1. This technique is used by a lot of tenors who like rangewanking, going for the schtick of a tenor singing bass woah cool. There's Colm McGuinness, who can growl down to a countable D1 and can even hit a solid Eb1. Marwan Ayman, (yes he's a tenor shut up everyone) who got down to B0. And of course, Casper Fox. He's gotten down to G#0, and has a lot of decent low chest notes.

If we're going purely by chest? Well, Patrick Stump has shown vocal proficiency below the bass clef, having strong lows down to D2. Michael Kiske got experimental with his lower range as of late, getting smooth sounding lows bottoming out D2. George Michael has hit a bold C#2, which you wouldn't expect given his very effeminate voice. And I know it's been mentioned, but I'd be remissed if I didn't bring up: Yes. Paul McCartney's A1 is fucking insane. As is his C2 in Pipes of Peace.

And now, I'll end it on a shitty pun...

*deep breath*

... more like Cee LOW Green, amyrite? Hurr hurr hurr

[Steingrim]

Feb 3, 2024 21:01:35 GMT wbradycall said:

Oct 14, 2023 8:03:59 GMT Steingrim said:

Ramon Vinay, that's an impressively versatile opera singer.

Here he ends on a piercing F2 in Don Carlos, a bass role : youtu.be/zeUj037GDS8?si=GnNkqiDSPZvntDX2&t=486
The instrumentation is moderate.

Here he sings, to my ears, a very good Bb4 in Carmen : youtu.be/ZS_oYqVP5s8?si=VFu8G6Pn1o_Nubwx&t=12

I'm thinking that he must be a baritone with unusually high passaggi.

Some of the live recordings of Michael Spyres in "Ah! sì, per voi già sento" from Otello are of a poor quality, here's one that's a bit clearer. youtu.be/JCsP-SUUTbo?si=Xy6MsxKWFoLJ0yfb&t=24

His short A2 seems to have some power, but it lacks that piercing quality that the basses are especially good at producing. One gets the feeling that he's a tenor.

Here he sings his way from a roaring F#5 in mixed voice to a more modest F#2.
youtu.be/_3Clm14dAPw?si=wLDkpnL4H3EUyhIP&t=329

I don't think Ramon Vinay was the one who sang the F2 in Don Carlos.

According to operawire.com, he did sing that role. So what you mean is that that clip involves some other opera singer, and the text is fake ? The channel has hundreds of opera videos. Note that the high F not long before the low F is very easy. Much easier than from any regular operatic bass that I have ever heard. I can sing F4 within my passaggi quite easily, so I should be able to tell.

[wbradycall]

Feb 4, 2024 11:38:09 GMT Steingrim said:

Feb 3, 2024 21:01:35 GMT wbradycall said:

I don't think Ramon Vinay was the one who sang the F2 in Don Carlos.

According to operawire.com, he did sing that role. So what you mean is that that clip involves some other opera singer, and the text is fake ? The channel has hundreds of opera videos. Note that the high F not long before the low F is very easy. Much easier than from any regular operatic bass that I have ever heard. I can sing F4 within my passaggi quite easily, so I should be able to tell.

Ramon Vinay was playing the Grand Inquisitor. The other guy singing bass was Phillip II. That last passage with the low F at the end is sung by Phillip II and not the grand inquisitor.

[Steingrim]

Feb 5, 2024 5:05:51 GMT wbradycall said:

Feb 4, 2024 11:38:09 GMT Steingrim said:

According to operawire.com, he did sing that role. So what you mean is that that clip involves some other opera singer, and the text is fake ? The channel has hundreds of opera videos. Note that the high F not long before the low F is very easy. Much easier than from any regular operatic bass that I have ever heard. I can sing F4 within my passaggi quite easily, so I should be able to tell.

Ramon Vinay was playing the Grand Inquisitor. The other guy singing bass was Phillip II. That last passage with the low F at the end is sung by Phillip II and not the grand inquisitor.

So you mean that you know that he didn't sing that, it was the other bass. Thanks for pointing that out. So the text isn't incorrect, then. But it's strange that the channel doesn't have the part where the grand inquisitor sings a low E, which is found about 3/4 of the way through. Or maybe Vinaj skipped that particular note.

It's worth noting that the other bass, Ezio Flagello, had a "remarkable upper register extending to a high A" according to the wikipedia article on him. So his high F was indeed easy.

Okay, I'm unconfused.

[wbradycall]

Feb 5, 2024 13:37:16 GMT Steingrim said:

Feb 5, 2024 5:05:51 GMT wbradycall said:

Ramon Vinay was playing the Grand Inquisitor. The other guy singing bass was Phillip II. That last passage with the low F at the end is sung by Phillip II and not the grand inquisitor.

So you mean that you know that he didn't sing that, it was the other bass. Thanks for pointing that out. So the text isn't incorrect, then. But it's strange that the channel doesn't have the part where the grand inquisitor sings a low E, which is found about 3/4 of the way through. Or maybe Vinaj skipped that particular note.

It's worth noting that the other bass, Ezio Flagello, had a "remarkable upper register extending to a high A" according to the wikipedia article on him. So his high F was indeed easy.

Okay, I'm unconfused.

I admit I make mistakes, too, lol.

[wbradycall]

Feb 3, 2024 23:28:36 GMT Yojojo said:

The main way for a tenor to go reeeeeal low is growling. For example, Jack Black has growled his way down to G1. This technique is used by a lot of tenors who like rangewanking, going for the schtick of a tenor singing bass woah cool. There's Colm McGuinness, who can growl down to a countable D1 and can even hit a solid Eb1. Marwan Ayman, (yes he's a tenor shut up everyone) who got down to B0. And of course, Casper Fox. He's gotten down to G#0, and has a lot of decent low chest notes.

If we're going purely by chest? Well, Patrick Stump has shown vocal proficiency below the bass clef, having strong lows down to D2. Michael Kiske got experimental with his lower range as of late, getting smooth sounding lows bottoming out D2. George Michael has hit a bold C#2, which you wouldn't expect given his very effeminate voice. And I know it's been mentioned, but I'd be remissed if I didn't bring up: Yes. Paul McCartney's A1 is fucking insane. As is his C2 in Pipes of Peace.

And now, I'll end it on a shitty pun...

*deep breath*

... more like Cee LOW Green, amyrite? Hurr hurr hurr

I agree Casper Fox is impressive.

[Steingrim]

Some real low notes, just for reference.

[Homelander]

Barry Gibb has a surprisingly strong A1 in the song "Cover You". His many D2s from "The Savage Is Loose" are actually really good, considering his high vocal placement. Aside from those two notes, Barry's lower register is pretty unimpressive and basically doesn't exist below G2.

Robin Gibb (who has a much higher voice than Barry) hits a fairly strong backing vocal C♯2 in "Rebecca". He also hits a less impressive (but still decent) E2 in "Heaven In My Hands". He has a really good F2 in the demo version of "Return to Austria" as well. His G♯2 from "Come Some Christmas Eve or Halloween" should really be bold. Robin surprisingly had some really solid notes down to G2 (G2s from "In Your Diary", the aforementioned G♯2 from "Come Some Christmas Eve or Halloween", the G♯2s from "Mother of Love", the A2s from "Sanctuary", the B♭2s from "You Don't Say Us Anymore", etc.), but he also had some pretty terrible ones too (the A2s from "When Do I", the A2 from "Monday's Rain", the A2 from "Remembering"). Surprisingly, his low notes are better on the demo version of "When Do I".