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Post by amadeusd on Sept 5, 2024 20:00:59 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BzbxNXzHKw&t=7s Here's a compilation of notes throughout my career so far A1-C6-Eb7 I can probably crank a bit more out, there is an unlisted video of me doing an A7 I might release but I figured it's best to only use stuff I tracked or performed. Enjoy! LOL we have nearly the exact same range. |
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Post by powerrob on Sept 9, 2024 23:01:02 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BzbxNXzHKw&t=7s Here's a compilation of notes throughout my career so far A1-C6-Eb7 I can probably crank a bit more out, there is an unlisted video of me doing an A7 I might release but I figured it's best to only use stuff I tracked or performed. Enjoy! LOL we have nearly the exact same range. That's interesting, do you have footage of this? |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 10, 2024 1:33:01 GMT
LOL we have nearly the exact same range. That's interesting, do you have footage of this? For clarity: My A1s are not demonstrable.. Have hit it three times in total ever). I am ignoring the claim to an A7 at this stage for various reasons. My current accessible range is C2-C#/D6 currently, but my upper-end for flageolet when I had control of it was Eb7 which is recorded. As i re-develop it at the moment I've hit notes as high as B7, but there's no way I'd count them. I've posted clips of B1/C2, C6, Eb7 and up to G#5 (though, could probably push to a Bb if challenged) in mixed (or full head) on the Discord. Are you on there? NB: Cannot tell what registers you're claiming for. For instance, the format of your claim seems to indicate C#6 is a head voice note, and Eb7 is a falsetto note (having heard your comp, that's not the case) so if you are making claims of that kind, maybe there's more to be said. |
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Post by powerrob on Sept 10, 2024 19:10:59 GMT
That's interesting, do you have footage of this? For clarity: My A1s are not demonstrable.. Have hit it three times in total ever). I am ignoring the claim to an A7 at this stage for various reasons. My current accessible range is C2-C#/D6 currently, but my upper-end for flageolet when I had control of it was Eb7 which is recorded. As i re-develop it at the moment I've hit notes as high as B7, but there's no way I'd count them. I've posted clips of B1/C2, C6, Eb7 and up to G#5 (though, could probably push to a Bb if challenged) in mixed (or full head) on the Discord. Are you on there? NB: Cannot tell what registers you're claiming for. For instance, the format of your claim seems to indicate C#6 is a head voice note, and Eb7 is a falsetto note (having heard your comp, that's not the case) so if you are making claims of that kind, maybe there's more to be said. These are certainly some impressive claims but I am interested to hear exactly you pulling these off, because that is quite the range to claim you have. I'd like to see the clips, I'm sure they aren't that hard to acquire since they are yours. I could go beyond these notes if necessary but they were not deemed useful for the material I was performing, this is merely a highlight reel. Regardless anything in the 7th octave is substantial, I would love to see the clips of these. My mix extends up to C#6 on my best days with two recorded mixed screams in the video on C6 one of which is at the end of the siren done live. The vocal cords are compressed for the screams, and no I'm not in the discord. I don't use the platform. |
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Post by powerrob on Sept 10, 2024 19:16:01 GMT
What is the difference between "head voice" and "falsetto" and which registers are they supposed to be in? The most common problem with this type of discussion is that people don't speak the same language. In my early days I would mix up head voice with mixed but over the years I've just grown accustomed to teaching that falsetto and head voice are more the classical definitions of it and I try not to pull hairs out over the matter. |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 10, 2024 19:38:51 GMT
Falsetto is more hooty and completely disconnected from chest voice, so it's always gonna be M2, while head voice can fit in M1 as well since it's gonna be more "connected". For instance some high mixed notes are super heady and they're still gonna be considered M1. Basically when we refer to head voice in these super high notes (top of mixed register-ish) it's more like, non-falsetto notes that are still M1 PRetty much bang-on. I understand pedagogically why some people teach falsetto as a 'mode' or 'tone' of head voice - in terms of using your ears to assess what you're doing, that's somewhat helpful. But this is totally right, in that falsetto is a different register not just a different implementation. It's been rather odd to see many 'senior' members claiming that falsetto is just a description of lighter, brighter tone in head voice. |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 10, 2024 19:42:13 GMT
What is the difference between "head voice" and "falsetto" and which registers are they supposed to be in? The most common problem with this type of discussion is that people don't speak the same language. I agree, but in this case it seems that some are misinformed as to the technical definitions of these registers. As best I can tell, in terms of 'the literature', it's quite a clear-cut issue. Mami touches on some of those details above. As noted above, pedagogically (and this goes to powerrob's point) it kind of makes sense to just use the language your student is using to get them where they are going. But here on the forum, I think at least a little more precision is worth aiming for. Problem is, given the above pedagogical point, it's likely we're going to get people making claims for registers that are perhaps mis-labeled in their personal lexicon. Cest la vie :P |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 10, 2024 19:47:11 GMT
For clarity: My A1s are not demonstrable.. Have hit it three times in total ever). I am ignoring the claim to an A7 at this stage for various reasons. My current accessible range is C2-C#/D6 currently, but my upper-end for flageolet when I had control of it was Eb7 which is recorded. As i re-develop it at the moment I've hit notes as high as B7, but there's no way I'd count them. I've posted clips of B1/C2, C6, Eb7 and up to G#5 (though, could probably push to a Bb if challenged) in mixed (or full head) on the Discord. Are you on there? NB: Cannot tell what registers you're claiming for. For instance, the format of your claim seems to indicate C#6 is a head voice note, and Eb7 is a falsetto note (having heard your comp, that's not the case) so if you are making claims of that kind, maybe there's more to be said. I'd like to see the clips, I'm sure they aren't that hard to acquire since they are yours. They're all on my phone. Idk if I can send via a PM without uploading elsewhere and linking, but feel free to shoot me some platform on which you could receive short clips/videos directly. More than happy to show them (and you're welcome to comment on them here, rather htan privately, if you wish). Regardless anything in the 7th octave is substantial, I would love to see the clips of these. The Eb is recorded (in the sense of bedroom recording) and I have a handful of more recent squeaked flageolet notes while practicing. Intentional, but not something I would put in a recording. Judgment be yours once you hear them, lol. |
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Post by powerrob on Sept 11, 2024 0:11:19 GMT
I'd like to see the clips, I'm sure they aren't that hard to acquire since they are yours. They're all on my phone. Idk if I can send via a PM without uploading elsewhere and linking, but feel free to shoot me some platform on which you could receive short clips/videos directly. More than happy to show them (and you're welcome to comment on them here, rather htan privately, if you wish). Regardless anything in the 7th octave is substantial, I would love to see the clips of these. The Eb is recorded (in the sense of bedroom recording) and I have a handful of more recent squeaked flageolet notes while practicing. Intentional, but not something I would put in a recording. Judgment be yours once you hear them, lol. I don't know, if we're just going to take cell phone recordings of squeaking the highest notes we possibly can, I'm not really sure how much I'd want to count those. For instance, there's an inhaled whistle I have done on phone that's A7 I have unlisted on my YouTube but since it's not part of any sort of musical arrangement of any kind, I didn't feel it was necessary to add it to the list. I'd have to get live footage from the rock opera the last song was from, I did some inhale fry screams that went beyond the Eb7 that was shown in the recording, I haven't checked the last live stream of it though. I was playing an anthropomorphic Kaiju villain which required animalistic sounds, inhale fry was appropriate. The same goes for my vocal fry, A1 was appropriate for the arrangement of the song I was singing on, I've demonstrated lower than that in sessions before but they were never useful for said song. The criteria I have for official rankings is similar to the way that vocalists are ranked on here. If it's not even loosely and a musical context, I don't feel it's appropriate to count it. I think that a majority of artists that are listed on the range planet likely have the capacity to go higher and lower than what is pointed out but they just never felt the need to do it. Still, even if we remove outliner notes, you are reporting to have a pretty killer full range from the sound of it, do you have releases? How about we start there, if you have a mix that goes up to the top of the fifth octave I'm guessing that you have some songs that display this. Do you have a SoundCloud, YouTube channel? If you indeed have the ability to sing in a mixed voice that high, I can imagine you have plenty of examples on your releases or performances. I would highly recommend putting together a reel of these notes, you've already got the clips from the sound of it, could be pretty easy to make a comp of it to have on hand! |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 11, 2024 1:34:34 GMT
{Spoiler}
I don't know, if we're just going to take cell phone recordings of squeaking the highest notes we possibly can, I'm not really sure how much I'd want to count those.
For instance, there's an inhaled whistle I have done on phone that's A7 I have unlisted on my YouTube but since it's not part of any sort of musical arrangement of any kind, I didn't feel it was necessary to add it to the list. I'd have to get live footage from the rock opera the last song was from, I did some inhale fry screams that went beyond the Eb7 that was shown in the recording, I haven't checked the last live stream of it though. I was playing an anthropomorphic Kaiju villain which required animalistic sounds, inhale fry was appropriate.
The criteria I have for official rankings is similar to the way that vocalists are ranked on here. If it's not even loosely and a musical context, I don't feel it's appropriate to count it.
I think that a majority of artists that are listed on the range planet likely have the capacity to go higher and lower than what is pointed out but they just never felt the need to do it.
Still, even if we remove outliner notes, you are reporting to have a pretty killer full range from the sound of it, do you have releases? How about we start there, if you have a mix that goes up to the top of the fifth octave I'm guessing that you have some songs that display this. Do you have a SoundCloud, YouTube channel? If you indeed have the ability to sing in a mixed voice that high, I can imagine you have plenty of examples on your releases or performances.
I would highly recommend putting together a reel of these notes, you've already got the clips from the sound of it, could be pretty easy to make a comp of it to have on hand! Re: Squeaky recordings: I said as much. I don't see any reason not to count them if there's multiple examples, though. They are, then, in range. Re: Fry/Inhales: I do not count fry or inhales at all. Partially why I said "there may be more to say" hehe. That C#6 is pure falsetto, for instance, to me(tbf, obviously there's some false chord distortion, but mechanistically, falsetto). Thank you for pointing those fry/inhales out. Re: 'critieria': I count any reliable notes in a singer's range. "musicality" is vague, undefined and wishy-washy in terms of how it's applied. Most musical theater requires notes that wouldn't make the cut here, but are clearly in range for those singers (One example is some versions of Gethsemane, in the final verse on "now, i'm sad and tired" - often a big drop there which wouldn't be counted). Then again, this forum misuses many technical terms all over the place so it could just be something to suck up and deal with. Re: singer's capacity to go higher/lower: Overall, yes, that will be the case. Soem singers obviously stretch themselves on purpose (Patton, Dimash, Lopez, Brown, Haagen etc...) In some cases the notes listed exemplify the singers attempting to expand their range, but this isn't an altogether relevant point. If we have no examples, we can't speculate. But you're probably right. Re: My range and available examples: you can provide me a platform on which to send you these clips? Still happy to do so. Re: a range compilation: I have no interest in this, sorry. But again, I can provide you examples of at least: B1 and C2, up to G#5 in modal voice (i.e chest and head voice), up to C6/D6 in falsetto and Eb7 in flageolet. These are not inhales or fry notes. I, somewhat embarrassingly, do not know how to fry below my actual chest voice notes other than subs in throat singing which I can't yet control adequately to count. |
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Post by Steingrim on Sept 11, 2024 10:33:32 GMT
Falsetto is more hooty and completely disconnected from chest voice, so it's always gonna be M2, while head voice can fit in M1 as well since it's gonna be more "connected". For instance some high mixed notes are super heady and they're still gonna be considered M1. Basically when we refer to head voice in these super high notes (top of mixed register-ish) it's more like, non-falsetto notes that are still M1 PRetty much bang-on. I understand pedagogically why some people teach falsetto as a 'mode' or 'tone' of head voice - in terms of using your ears to assess what you're doing, that's somewhat helpful. But this is totally right, in that falsetto is a different register not just a different implementation. It's been rather odd to see many 'senior' members claiming that falsetto is just a description of lighter, brighter tone in head voice. Not having figured out how to do "mixed voice" in the M2 register, all I know is that my D5 with vibrato in chest voice (M1) is ridiculously different to my D5 with vibrato in falsetto (M2). |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 11, 2024 19:43:09 GMT
PRetty much bang-on. I understand pedagogically why some people teach falsetto as a 'mode' or 'tone' of head voice - in terms of using your ears to assess what you're doing, that's somewhat helpful. But this is totally right, in that falsetto is a different register not just a different implementation. It's been rather odd to see many 'senior' members claiming that falsetto is just a description of lighter, brighter tone in head voice. Not having figured out how to do "mixed voice" in the M2 register, all I know is that my D5 with vibrato in chest voice (M1) is ridiculously different to my D5 with vibrato in falsetto (M2). This isn't like, a challenge to your claim or anything, but I would be extremely interested to hear a pure chest D5 from someone who is not a soprano or seeeeerious leggero :P |
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Post by powerrob on Sept 11, 2024 20:06:00 GMT
{Spoiler}
I don't know, if we're just going to take cell phone recordings of squeaking the highest notes we possibly can, I'm not really sure how much I'd want to count those.
For instance, there's an inhaled whistle I have done on phone that's A7 I have unlisted on my YouTube but since it's not part of any sort of musical arrangement of any kind, I didn't feel it was necessary to add it to the list. I'd have to get live footage from the rock opera the last song was from, I did some inhale fry screams that went beyond the Eb7 that was shown in the recording, I haven't checked the last live stream of it though. I was playing an anthropomorphic Kaiju villain which required animalistic sounds, inhale fry was appropriate.
The criteria I have for official rankings is similar to the way that vocalists are ranked on here. If it's not even loosely and a musical context, I don't feel it's appropriate to count it.
I think that a majority of artists that are listed on the range planet likely have the capacity to go higher and lower than what is pointed out but they just never felt the need to do it.
Still, even if we remove outliner notes, you are reporting to have a pretty killer full range from the sound of it, do you have releases? How about we start there, if you have a mix that goes up to the top of the fifth octave I'm guessing that you have some songs that display this. Do you have a SoundCloud, YouTube channel? If you indeed have the ability to sing in a mixed voice that high, I can imagine you have plenty of examples on your releases or performances.
I would highly recommend putting together a reel of these notes, you've already got the clips from the sound of it, could be pretty easy to make a comp of it to have on hand! Re: Squeaky recordings: I said as much. I don't see any reason not to count them if there's multiple examples, though. They are, then, in range. Re: Fry/Inhales: I do not count fry or inhales at all. Partially why I said "there may be more to say" hehe. That C#6 is pure falsetto, for instance, to me(tbf, obviously there's some false chord distortion, but mechanistically, falsetto). Thank you for pointing those fry/inhales out. Re: 'critieria': I count any reliable notes in a singer's range. "musicality" is vague, undefined and wishy-washy in terms of how it's applied. Most musical theater requires notes that wouldn't make the cut here, but are clearly in range for those singers (One example is some versions of Gethsemane, in the final verse on "now, i'm sad and tired" - often a big drop there which wouldn't be counted). Then again, this forum misuses many technical terms all over the place so it could just be something to suck up and deal with. Re: singer's capacity to go higher/lower: Overall, yes, that will be the case. Soem singers obviously stretch themselves on purpose (Patton, Dimash, Lopez, Brown, Haagen etc...) In some cases the notes listed exemplify the singers attempting to expand their range, but this isn't an altogether relevant point. If we have no examples, we can't speculate. But you're probably right. Re: My range and available examples: you can provide me a platform on which to send you these clips? Still happy to do so. Re: a range compilation: I have no interest in this, sorry. But again, I can provide you examples of at least: B1 and C2, up to G#5 in modal voice (i.e chest and head voice), up to C6/D6 in falsetto and Eb7 in flageolet. These are not inhales or fry notes. I, somewhat embarrassingly, do not know how to fry below my actual chest voice notes other than subs in throat singing which I can't yet control adequately to count. The mix notes go to C6, I can DO C#6 but I've only done so in outtakes. Those notes are not decompressed as evident by the prior notes not releasing compression to switch to the C6. It's not really a matter of opinion, I do the C6 live with one of my bands semi regularly. If I'm really tired, yes it'll sometimes be falsetto, but in those cases they are extensions of the prior notes. That being said, I'm not really keen on taking someone's word or having them send me a bunch of video files privately on a public thread. If at some point you feel comfortable doing so, happy to hear them. Perhaps a Google Drive link of all of your notes would be a good idea, could be handy since you seem to like discussing this stuff often. |
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Post by Steingrim on Sept 11, 2024 22:30:10 GMT
Not having figured out how to do "mixed voice" in the M2 register, all I know is that my D5 with vibrato in chest voice (M1) is ridiculously different to my D5 with vibrato in falsetto (M2). This isn't like, a challenge to your claim or anything, but I would be extremely interested to hear a pure chest D5 from someone who is not a soprano or seeeeerious leggero :P Almost noone sings full chest notes way above their primo passaggio. Instead, they start thinning out the chest voice as they take it up. I can push chest voice that is close to pure up to an A4 but it's not a good thing. There's a male Japanese singer who performs like that up to at least Bb4, there's a clip of that somewhere on this site. Some people will call the mentioned "thinning" of the chest voice "mixing" instead, but it really doesn't have anything to do with mixing two different registers. I have an old clip in this thread where I go from D2 to a couple of D5s and a crappy E5 in chest voice. The high notes are bound to be thinner than if Ariana Grande sings them. Thinner, but also darker because of the voice color. |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 12, 2024 1:20:40 GMT
This isn't like, a challenge to your claim or anything, but I would be extremely interested to hear a pure chest D5 from someone who is not a soprano or seeeeerious leggero :P Almost noone sings full chest notes way above their primo passaggio. They start thinning out the chest voice as they take it up. I can push chest voice that is close to pure up to an A4 but it's not a good thing. There's a male Japanese singer who performs like that up to at least Bb4, there's a clip of that somewhere on this site. Some people will call that "thinning" of the chest voice "mixing" instead, but it really doesn't have anything to do with mixing two different registers. I have an old clip in this thread where I go from D2 to a couple of D5s and a crappy E5 in chest voice. The high notes are bound to be thinner than if Ariana Grande sings them. Thinner, but also darker because of the voice color. I suppose I can't quite grasp what you're getting at here then. 'full chest' just means non-mixed, not 'full power chest voice'. I assume you're then describing yourself getting D5s in a thin chest voice? That still seems extremely unlikely and something I'd be very, very interested to hear. Closest I could think of sounding that way is Bonnet, but he's mixing with super-compressed distortion around that range. Is the idea that you're singing in head voice and pulling chest compression up into it? It's confusing if you're rejecting that it's mixed, but then claiming its chest voice rather htan head voice. Chang Yu Sheng was able to sing mixed up to A5 as best I can tell (some claim it went up to C6, but i'm very skeptical). I would imagine his pure chest could have got a bit of bite on C# or D5. Possible who you're referring to, but I don't know. A good example of that weird super-high-placed male voice in any case. |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 12, 2024 1:23:12 GMT
{Spoiler}
Re: Squeaky recordings: I said as much. I don't see any reason not to count them if there's multiple examples, though. They are, then, in range.
Re: Fry/Inhales: I do not count fry or inhales at all. Partially why I said "there may be more to say" hehe. That C#6 is pure falsetto, for instance, to me(tbf, obviously there's some false chord distortion, but mechanistically, falsetto). Thank you for pointing those fry/inhales out.
Re: 'critieria': I count any reliable notes in a singer's range. "musicality" is vague, undefined and wishy-washy in terms of how it's applied. Most musical theater requires notes that wouldn't make the cut here, but are clearly in range for those singers (One example is some versions of Gethsemane, in the final verse on "now, i'm sad and tired" - often a big drop there which wouldn't be counted). Then again, this forum misuses many technical terms all over the place so it could just be something to suck up and deal with.
Re: singer's capacity to go higher/lower: Overall, yes, that will be the case. Soem singers obviously stretch themselves on purpose (Patton, Dimash, Lopez, Brown, Haagen etc...) In some cases the notes listed exemplify the singers attempting to expand their range, but this isn't an altogether relevant point. If we have no examples, we can't speculate. But you're probably right.
Re: My range and available examples: you can provide me a platform on which to send you these clips? Still happy to do so.
Re: a range compilation: I have no interest in this, sorry. But again, I can provide you examples of at least: B1 and C2, up to G#5 in modal voice (i.e chest and head voice), up to C6/D6 in falsetto and Eb7 in flageolet. These are not inhales or fry notes. I, somewhat embarrassingly, do not know how to fry below my actual chest voice notes other than subs in throat singing which I can't yet control adequately to count. The mix notes go to C6, I can DO C#6 but I've only done so in outtakes. Those notes are not decompressed as evident by the prior notes not releasing compression to switch to the C6. It's not really a matter of opinion, I do the C6 live with one of my bands semi regularly. If I'm really tired, yes it'll sometimes be falsetto, but in those cases they are extensions of the prior notes. Well, okay. I disagree having heard it. Whatever mate. That being said, I'm not really keen on taking someone's word or having them send me a bunch of video files privately on a public thread. If at some point you feel comfortable doing so, happy to hear them. Perhaps a Google Drive link of all of your notes would be a good idea, could be handy since you seem to like discussing this stuff often. I've offered you the avenue to hear these clips with the caveat that you're more than welcome to comment on them here. Take it or leave it. Not in any way trying to be rude here. This has been unnecessarily protracted, and I just can't be bothered. Shoot me a platform or don't. No harm no foul either way. |
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Post by Steingrim on Sept 12, 2024 8:28:20 GMT
Almost noone sings full chest notes way above their primo passaggio. They start thinning out the chest voice as they take it up. I can push chest voice that is close to pure up to an A4 but it's not a good thing. There's a male Japanese singer who performs like that up to at least Bb4, there's a clip of that somewhere on this site. Some people will call that "thinning" of the chest voice "mixing" instead, but it really doesn't have anything to do with mixing two different registers. I have an old clip in this thread where I go from D2 to a couple of D5s and a crappy E5 in chest voice. The high notes are bound to be thinner than if Ariana Grande sings them. Thinner, but also darker because of the voice color. I suppose I can't quite grasp what you're getting at here then. 'full chest' just means non-mixed, not 'full power chest voice'. I assume you're then describing yourself getting D5s in a thin chest voice? That still seems extremely unlikely and something I'd be very, very interested to hear. Closest I could think of sounding that way is Bonnet, but he's mixing with super-compressed distortion around that range. Is the idea that you're singing in head voice and pulling chest compression up into it? It's confusing if you're rejecting that it's mixed, but then claiming its chest voice rather htan head voice. Chang Yu Sheng was able to sing mixed up to A5 as best I can tell (some claim it went up to C6, but i'm very skeptical). I would imagine his pure chest could have got a bit of bite on C# or D5. Possible who you're referring to, but I don't know. A good example of that weird super-high-placed male voice in any case. What I said is that what you call "mixed", is really a matter of thinning out the chest voice as one takes it up. Which is what everyone normally does when singing above the primo passaggio. It's physically impossible to mix two different registers of the voice. Then people also use the term "mixed voice" about using the TA muscle to make the M2 register sound more like chest voice, and then confusion sets in. Regarding "pure" chest voice. A friend of mine was going to practice "belting" some song and misunderstood what that meant, and ended up singing the song in pure chest voice up to a G#4 before she gave up because she got tired and her throat hurt. Her primo passaggio is above F4, so apparently it doesn't take much before failing to "thin out" one's chest voice becomes a problem. I have no idea how that Japanese singer that I mentioned manages to perform like that. The thinning is of course gradual by nature, so my D4 doesn't sound noticeably thinner than my C4 which by nature is still unthinned. |
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 12, 2024 20:00:58 GMT
I suppose I can't quite grasp what you're getting at here then. 'full chest' just means non-mixed, not 'full power chest voice'. I assume you're then describing yourself getting D5s in a thin chest voice? That still seems extremely unlikely and something I'd be very, very interested to hear. Closest I could think of sounding that way is Bonnet, but he's mixing with super-compressed distortion around that range. Is the idea that you're singing in head voice and pulling chest compression up into it? It's confusing if you're rejecting that it's mixed, but then claiming its chest voice rather htan head voice. Chang Yu Sheng was able to sing mixed up to A5 as best I can tell (some claim it went up to C6, but i'm very skeptical). I would imagine his pure chest could have got a bit of bite on C# or D5. Possible who you're referring to, but I don't know. A good example of that weird super-high-placed male voice in any case. What I said is that what you call "mixed", is really a matter of thinning out the chest voice as one takes it up. Which is what everyone normally does when singing above the primo passaggio. It's physically impossible to mix two different registers of the voice. Then people also use the term "mixed voice" about using the TA muscle to make the M2 register sound more like chest voice, and then confusion sets in. Regarding "pure" chest voice. A friend of mine was going to practice "belting" some song and misunderstood what that meant, and ended up singing the song in pure chest voice up to a G#4 before she gave up because she got tired and her throat hurt. Her primo passaggio is above F4, so apparently it doesn't take much before failing to "thin out" one's chest voice becomes a problem. I have no idea how that Japanese singer that I mentioned manages to perform like that. The thinning is of course gradual by nature, so my D4 doesn't sound noticeably thinner than my C4 which by nature is still unthinned. Ah, i see what you're saying. I'm with you as to your D5 now. Hmm. I don't think 'mixed' is misleading there, though. You are certainly mixing registers in terms of the musculature used to engage them, and I think that's really what's being talked about with 'pulling chest'. There is a clear physical difference between a light, airy tenor-ish G4-C5 area and a throaty, robust version of the same area, and you're right that it's not particularly accurate to say that the mechanisms proper are being 'mixed' (though, my understanding is different to yours - more than one mode can be engaged - but I could be wrong) but that what the singer is doing mixes techniques to achieve a certain sound. For instance, above what's termed the primo passagio, for me, I can actually sing in pure chest voice. Bringing in a little airiness and thinness doesn't require much change in the actual technique, but it clearly adjusts throat placement and modal engagement to get a new sound. But, equally, I can sing in 'full' (i.e no false chord, distortion or 'pulling chest') head voice as low as two steps below my primo passagio (this being around G4). Mixing the techniques used to get the 'full' or 'pure' sounds results in tonal mixtures and textural mixtures. So I think you're right that its confused/confusing, but I do think people are getting at something totally legitimate. |
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Post by kuyashii on Sept 12, 2024 23:27:46 GMT
F2-G4
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Post by amadeusd on Sept 13, 2024 1:42:50 GMT
Your primo passaggio is not at G4 unless you are a soprano. I think you are focusing so much on special techniques, muscle use and resulting "sounds" that you miss what is going on at the fundamental level of the different registers. Anyone can sing in the M2 register below their primo passaggio. Volume will fade and it may not be that useful, though. No, i'm not. I've specified exactly the opposite in my previous post (that your description of my 'focus' is what people generally do, and that is helpful pragmatically, but is incorrect). Not sure how that was lost. Unsure how to respond to you claiming something about my own voice, but all good mate :) |
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Steingrim
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Elton John and John Lennon, 1974
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Post by Steingrim on Sept 13, 2024 8:25:38 GMT
Your primo passaggio is not at G4 unless you are a soprano. I think you are focusing so much on special techniques, muscle use and resulting "sounds" that you miss what is going on at the fundamental level of the different registers. Anyone can sing in the M2 register below their primo passaggio. Volume will fade and it may not be that useful, though. No, i'm not. I've specified exactly the opposite in my previous post (that your description of my 'focus' is what people generally do, and that is helpful pragmatically, but is incorrect). Not sure how that was lost. Unsure how to respond to you claiming something about my own voice, but all good mate :) Passaggi at G4/C5 is impossible if you're a male singer with a normal voice. D4/G4 is already a high tenor. Earlier in this thread you claimed to have sung A1 in chest voice, which is impossible for any singer with soprano passaggi - including Bruno de Sa. |
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