User Vocal Ranges (24,014 views)

[amadeusd]

Oct 8, 2024 20:17:56 GMT kaji said:

Trying to enforce one interpretation as the definitive one is problematic

I fully agree, which is why I have tried, perhaps unsuccessfully, to delineate between what I am taking issue with linguistically (you'll see, I am largely saying 'agree' or 'disagree' despite the linguistic difference, based on the science). The point was never to say 'use these words or else'. I've explained why I think they are unhelpful (including noting our confusion here). My final section of the substantial post above shows this pretty clearly. I don't see an issue?

Regarding what is being taught, such as 'falsetto is basically just head voice', I take empirical issue. Have outlined that, relatively clearly. The two are distinct, and it seems you agree - so, I would imagine, if the 'words' were cleaner, we would agree that this is erroneous (even if its somewhat helpful in terms of pedagogy - less confusing theory). Which leads me to a possible solution as between us here:

Oct 8, 2024 20:17:56 GMT kaji said:

And of course 'falsetto' (a term which I reject) differs from modal voice. It is not modal voice. Neither is the classical female head register. I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. 

Right.. So, let's go back to something I said in my post earlier today:

Oct 8, 2024 19:00:59 GMT amadeusd said:

falsetto differs from modal voice (which includes head voice). If this isn't the conflict, then I can't see what either of you are arguing about here.

So, almost certainly, I have misunderstood. But this gives me good reason to think the uses of these words are wrong - not just 'different' because are causing some pretty extreme non-agreement (I wont say dis-agreement, because at least in this specific element, we actually agree!), as you said, between scientists who agree on what's actually 'happening' in the throat etc...

Oct 8, 2024 20:17:56 GMT kaji said:

don't fully align with each other

They don't need to - the overall conclusion which can be drawn is that there is a specific, mechanical correlate of the male falsetto (well, several, but you get me, i'm sure) which demarcates it off from the chest and head voice in males (noting the use of 'head voice' for female falsetto - such a weird move, honestly). Is this not something you gleaned from reading the several articles, that agree on this point?

Oct 8, 2024 20:17:56 GMT kaji said:

Additionally, changes in vocal fold closure or glottal open / closed quotient don’t alter the fundamental registration

Appreciated, but this seems to speak about something on which I am not speaking. They provide ample support for the idea that chest/head/falsetto are distinct registers (not 'mechanisms') in the male voice which are mechanically different. I am not attempting to invent a mechanism - I am (correctly, on my view) acknowledging that 'register' refers to these (and then also strohbass, flageolet - they just haven't come up, really, other than Steingrim claiming several people's low notes will be strohbass). Once again, acknowledging that the language I'm using might be inapt for three distinct reasons: We don't share it; it cannot be read across; and there may be no worthy language to be used. An example is that I don't know what else to call the physically-required circumstances, beyond engaging the Mx mechanism.

Oct 8, 2024 21:26:42 GMT Steingrim said:

reinforced falsetto

Is, to me, falsetto with the extra enforcement of the TA muscle, as you've aptly described multiple times. I don't care whether it's what Kaji describes, I'm telling you what my take on that quote is. You don't need to agree - I was fairly clear, that this is related to what you call 'mixed' voice. In fact, that's exactly what you quoted?? I'm really not understanding how you've missed this... I wasn't impugning Kaji's comment (though, I may not agree. Irrelevant). Clearly, what I just described and what you describe as 'mixed voice' are the same thing. Whcih is why I quoted you saying 'mixed voice'. Is this a real response, or what?

Oct 8, 2024 21:26:42 GMT Steingrim said:

I didn't say that. It's more likely that you don't know what you're talking about.

You very much did - the posts are there to be read. I'll say no more.

To clear up, yet another, misreading of something I've said, I've notclaimed there cannot be a break in register through that range (lets stick with C4-A4 for this). Not what I've said. I've pointed out that I can implement a register switch from chest, to head (and falsetto, tbh) around Eb4. But there is no break in the voice. My A4 and C4 can, and almost invariably are, in the exact same register, with obvious acoustic differences such as pitch, brightness etc...

You've called impossible something that is clearly true of most voices. It is very, very hard to take this line seriously. You are, in one breath, calling me a liar (re: no passgio C-A4), while telling me you don't take Miller's system - which is the one that informs you calling me a liar around that passgio. Bizarre to say the least mate. I truly did my best to avoid this pettiness. Unfortunately, I think this makes it quite clear you are not here in good faith. That is a shame.

Take care Steingrim.

[Steingrim]

Oct 9, 2024 0:07:16 GMT amadeusd said:

Oct 8, 2024 21:26:42 GMT Steingrim said:

reinforced falsetto

Is, to me, falsetto with the extra enforcement of the TA muscle, as you've aptly described multiple times. I don't care whether it's what Kaji describes, I'm telling you what my take on that quote is. You don't need to agree - I was fairly clear, that this is related to what you call 'mixed' voice. In fact, that's exactly what you quoted?? I'm really not understanding how you've missed this... I wasn't impugning Kaji's comment (though, I may not agree. Irrelevant). Clearly, what I just described and what you describe as 'mixed voice' are the same thing. Whcih is why I quoted you saying 'mixed voice'. Is this a real response, or what?

Oct 8, 2024 21:26:42 GMT Steingrim said:

I didn't say that. It's more likely that you don't know what you're talking about.

You very much did - the posts are there to be read. I'll say no more.

To clear up, yet another, misreading of something I've said, I've notclaimed there cannot be a break in register through that range (lets stick with C4-A4 for this). Not what I've said. I've pointed out that I can implement a register switch from chest, to head (and falsetto, tbh) around Eb4. But there is no break in the voice. My A4 and C4 can, and almost invariably are, in the exact same register, with obvious acoustic differences such as pitch, brightness etc...

You've called impossible something that is clearly true of most voices. It is very, very hard to take this line seriously. You are, in one breath, calling me a liar (re: no passgio C-A4), while telling me you don't take Miller's system - which is the one that informs you calling me a liar around that passgio. Bizarre to say the least mate. I truly did my best to avoid this pettiness. Unfortunately, I think this makes it quite clear you are not here in good faith. That is a shame.

Take care Steingrim.

A simple search of the thread will show that I didn't use the word liar or anything similar. I merely said that your claims about your primo passaggio are impossible. There could be several reasons why you make those impossible claims. The reason could be that you're talking about something else than what the term actually refers to.

There's also the following claim that you made in your first exchange with powerrob :

I've posted clips of B1/C2, C6, Eb7 and up to G#5 (though, could probably push to a Bb if challenged) in mixed (or full head) on the Discord.

Bb5 in modal voice must be borderline impossible for a male singer, and you stated that your voice type is middle baritone. There are extremely few female singers that can belt that note, G or G# is normally a threshold. My female jazz singer friend can belt a decent F5, then quality plummets and G#5 is simply impossible. For me anything above D5 is going to be ugly.

Oct 8, 2024 20:17:56 GMT kaji said:

I will respond properly later but here are the papers you requested:

drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ht1ZHrOwFzJwVzt1i3ROq2R1r95eLiAQ?usp=sharing

I'm reading the paper on "mixed voice" where the researcher talks about three registers : chest, mix and falsetto. For people coming from a "Richard Miller like" way of seeing things, it's easy to assume that "mix" refers to singing in modal voice above the primo passaggio, but in this case it does not.

The researcher has a number of male and female singers sing the same pitch in each of the three registers. On page 6, the upper left part of the chart that represents the first male singer has measurements for the following pitch ranges that that singer sang, with a number of different pitches within each range:

Chest : C3-C5
Mix : E4-G5
Falsetto : C3-G5

It's pretty clear from the ranges that "Chest" refers to modal voice (all the male singers sing up to between A4 and C5).
"Mix" refers to something going on in the M2 mechanism (or G5 would be unreasonable, and 3 of the 6 male singers are singing in "mix" up to at least F5).

On "reinforced falsetto". The research paper discusses that here :

In a recent study, Guzman et al examined the aerodynamic characteristics of reinforced falsetto. According to their study, the reinforced falsetto seems to be characterized by a lower MFR and higher PSub than the naive falsetto, although the note used in the experiments was not clear.
The reinforced falsetto is not a register, but rather a technique used in CCM, rock, and metal music; however, it appears to have a nature similar to the high-frequency mixed voice, as the results of this study showed. Considering the results of our study and Guzman’s study, it is reasonable to consider that the reinforced falsetto used in rock and metal music is actually the mix register (or at least, the headmix).

Here's a video about "reinforced falsetto". His version doesn't sound like a "belt imitation", but I don't know if that is because he's not really trying to make it sound like that.  youtu.be/WNwkDdE04ug?si=N7p9wN7497yiI9VX&t=85

At very high pitches, the chest-like quality of "mixed voice" isn't that pronounced any longer, the aim may instead be to keep it connected to the more chest-like sound of the lower pitches, by way of the "reinforced" quality.
High tenors may be better at keeping up the chest-like quality at higher pitches. Like for instance Justin Hawkins, here he's singing a mixed G5 : www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqHyGVdyNLo&t=35s
For reference, here's a decent belted F5 from Sting : youtu.be/KYps5LfOaGg?si=te86IShVvluzv7OM&t=216s

[rebaru]

my bocal range is b2 - e4

[Goober]

TRP user Rebaru comes out of semi-retirement to post very important message.

[Steingrim]

Oct 11, 2024 16:33:41 GMT rebaru said:

my bocal range is b2 - e4

You're my favourite singer.

Oct 11, 2024 17:11:36 GMT Goober said:

TRP user Rebaru comes out of semi-retirement to post very important message.

That sounds like something that Don Corleone did somewhere in the Godfather series.

[axrebia]

My vocal range is a2-f6 comfort range a3-a4

[Homelander]

Around Eb2 - Eb4 (give or take a note depending on the day). Up to B5 / C6 in falsetto, but it doesn't sound pretty.

[Steingrim]

Oct 15, 2024 21:12:42 GMT Homelander said:

Around Eb2 - Eb4 (give or take a note depending on the day). Up to B5 / C6 in falsetto, but it doesn't sound pretty.

Unless I focus hard my falsetto voice naturally cracks on A5. Which means that I shouldn't sing that note. That's straightforward falsetto with some volume. Some people are able to go further in what Kaji called "the fluting register", which is still in the M2 register. The same happens in modal voice on Eb5. According to some site my falsetto register is totally average for a male singer, with an acoustic shift point above B4. The triple passaggi that they suggested for the male average, was B3-E4-B4. Which describes a somewhat high baritone.

[kaji]

Oct 16, 2024 6:15:36 GMT Steingrim said:

Oct 15, 2024 21:12:42 GMT Homelander said:

Around Eb2 - Eb4 (give or take a note depending on the day). Up to B5 / C6 in falsetto, but it doesn't sound pretty.

Unless I focus hard my falsetto voice naturally cracks on A5. Which means that I shouldn't sing that note. That's straightforward falsetto with some volume. Some people are able to go further in what Kaji called "the fluting register", which is still in the M2 register. The same happens in modal voice on Eb5. According to some site my falsetto register is totally average for a male singer, with an acoustic shift point above B4. The triple passaggi that they suggested for the male average, was B3-E4-B4. Which describes a somewhat high baritone.

Flute register isn't just singing it lightly or with less volume; it outright feels like a different register. The reasons for that are purely acoustical. It's very difficult to connect the two. 

[Steingrim]

Oct 17, 2024 20:52:32 GMT kaji said:

Oct 16, 2024 6:15:36 GMT Steingrim said:

Unless I focus hard my falsetto voice naturally cracks on A5. Which means that I shouldn't sing that note. That's straightforward falsetto with some volume. Some people are able to go further in what Kaji called "the fluting register", which is still in the M2 register. The same happens in modal voice on Eb5. According to some site my falsetto register is totally average for a male singer, with an acoustic shift point above B4. The triple passaggi that they suggested for the male average, was B3-E4-B4. Which describes a somewhat high baritone.

Flute register isn't just singing it lightly or with less volume; it outright feels like a different register. The reasons for that are purely acoustical. It's very difficult to connect the two. 

What I was getting at is that it's easier to squeak something in falsetto and call that a note. Maybe one hits that note very briefly and maybe the voice didn't crack on its way down again. I have some trouble navigating the acoustic shift between B4/C5, particularly when going down. I'm sure that it's only a matter of practice. There's more natural power just above it, at C-D. But I don't think I've ever managed to get into the fluting register. The term itself is a bit confusing, the elaborate list of terms under each mechanism found in the research paper that I discussed a few posts back has the following terms listed under "whistle" :

"Whistle : Flageolet, flute, acute, pipe, mechanism 3 (m3)"

[kaji]

Oct 18, 2024 8:05:03 GMT Steingrim said:

Oct 17, 2024 20:52:32 GMT kaji said:

Flute register isn't just singing it lightly or with less volume; it outright feels like a different register. The reasons for that are purely acoustical. It's very difficult to connect the two. 

What I was getting at is that it's easier to squeak something in falsetto and call that a note. Maybe one hits that note very briefly and maybe the voice didn't crack on its way down again. I have some trouble navigating the acoustic shift between B4/C5, particularly when going down. I'm sure that it's only a matter of practice. There's more natural power just above it, at C-D. But I don't think I've ever managed to get into the fluting register. The term itself is a bit confusing, the elaborate list of terms under each mechanism found in the research paper that I discussed a few posts back has the following terms listed under "whistle" :

"Whistle : Flageolet, flute, acute, pipe, mechanism 3 (m3)"

Flute register as referring to M2 with F2/H3 formant coupling I believe. The term is rather recent so it explains why the earlier LVM studies would put flute into the M3 category. Titze is one of the first who used 'flute' as referring to this, and it is quite possible some elsewhere used this term to refer to flageolet (stronger connected M3, think Mado Robin). It feels quite weird honestly and you can easily tire your voice with it even though it gives you easy access to range about a fourth above your normal head register. The reason most people do not differentiate the two is a) most sopranos already by habit use this in speech or daily life and can connect it without problem; lack of connection in male voices is largely to do with highly differing societal voice habits for male voices b) if one can connect it, it really isn't as important of a distinction unless one sings generally in a lower tessitura part. 

A book on Pauline Viardot actually makes reference to this:

Pauline was a superb singer, highly trained in the vocal methods of the eighteenth century, but it was a matter of tessitura, an Italian vocal term that means texture or “to weave” signifying the prevailing or average position of the notes in relation to the compass of the voice for which it is written. A mezzo soprano may have an extensive range with available notes up to high C, or even up to F or G in alt in the flute register, but if a role is written in a consistently high soprano register, particularly over the soprano passaggio, the laryngeal muscles will become stressed and quality and tuning will suffer. The part of Adalgisa also demands high notes and a coloratura technique, but the tessitura is lower.

and,

George Hogarth alluded to this “want of timbre” in the upper register of Viardot’s voice on more than one occasion. If she was truly a mezzo-soprano, or even a mezzo-contralto, it is possible that in the higher range (up to F in alt) she was using the equivalent of the bass or baritone falsetto, which the late Walter Gruner, Professor of Singing at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London, and an advocate of the “Garcia method”, called the “flute register” in the female voice. The deeper the voice, the more likely it is that this register exists, although many singers never discover it. It is a sound completely divorced from the true timbre of the middle voice and is rarely used today because it does not match the warmer, richer sound of the alto voice. For light sopranos who sing up to F in alt or even higher, the quality remains that of a soprano throughout the range, it is only the lower voices to which the term “flute register” really applies.

Notice how the second excerpt references what I mentioned prior. It is not that the flute register or upper head register does not exist in a higher female voice, it is simply more homogeneous across the range hence why the differentiation wasn't historically needed. 

The soprano grand-lyrique Emma Calvé used the flute register quite extensively as taught to her by castrato Domenico Mustafà. Emma then forth taught this technique to Gina Cigna who then taught it to Ghena Dimitrova and Maria Dragoni. In France we have sopranos Lily Pons and Mady Mesplé using it extensively; and in America the soprano Beverly Hoch. From lower voices we have the wonderful French mezzo-soprano Huguette Tourangeau who uses it quite often for the notes above a G, sometimes taking her up to a high E. 

Here towards the end of this scene she takes multiple high As and a high D - youtu.be/iwfPthvhw98?si=mlzk9I5K7Os7xSCV And to remind you, this is indeed a mezzo-soprano and one with higher tessitura at that. For clearer display of the register compared to her natural voice I recommend either www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccq6ZlSLzcY or www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JW7At-9BIA 

Another mezzo-soprano using this register but in a fairly normal range up to high C is Elena Cernei. youtu.be/GrLkU9auf4U?si=pSkl76gEVRgsWn1r and youtu.be/D1Rr9F1IQDY?si=vxvfuNCpvIi7m5kb

[Steingrim]

Yeah, that doesn't sound like an entirely different mechanism from normal M2, like Mado Robin's birdsong like high notes do.

[Leimont]

On average it's like A2-G4-G5 and that is like the most usable and sounds good.
On good days I can go as low as an G2 and as high as a C6, if I'm really pushing for it's limits I can creak out an F2 and squeal a D6 but that just sounds like I'm on the verge of dying so yeah, wouldn't really count it.

[Steingrim]

Oct 15, 2024 21:12:42 GMT Homelander said:

Around Eb2 - Eb4 (give or take a note depending on the day). Up to B5 / C6 in falsetto, but it doesn't sound pretty.

You're probably better suited for this than I am :



Morning voice might take me down to a singable C# but the sound would be a bit harsh. Eb2 is more malleable.

[Homelander]

Oct 22, 2024 5:41:49 GMT Steingrim said:

Oct 15, 2024 21:12:42 GMT Homelander said:

Around Eb2 - Eb4 (give or take a note depending on the day). Up to B5 / C6 in falsetto, but it doesn't sound pretty.

You're probably better suited for this than I am :



Morning voice might take me down to a singable C# but the sound would be a bit harsh. Eb2 is more malleable.

Yeah, around that Eb2 - F#2 area is where my lows are strongest. I'll make a recording when I'm able to.

[Steingrim]

Oct 22, 2024 13:28:43 GMT Homelander said:

Oct 22, 2024 5:41:49 GMT Steingrim said:

You're probably better suited for this than I am :

video

Morning voice might take me down to a singable C# but the sound would be a bit harsh. Eb2 is more malleable.

Yeah, around that Eb2 - F#2 area is where my lows are strongest. I'll make a recording when I'm able to.

That does sound like you are a bass. A low tessitura and a good and powerful E2 would describe a bass. Regardless you should be able to sing a modal low C if you work on it.

[amadeusd]

No, not a bass. Not at all a bass.

[Steingrim]

Oct 23, 2024 18:48:23 GMT amadeusd said:

No, not a bass. Not at all a bass.

Here's a 1930s profundo (low bass) messing around with some bass song, first in the original key down to Eb2. To him that note is easy, full and powerful. Then he has a go at a lower key down to B1. The C#2 at the end isn't as easy and the final B1 is a little bit tired compared. It's still pretty good. I wouldn't expect that much from the average bass, even if they can croak out A1 or lower if they try hard - in modal voice.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSmeF-5_BUk

He's on the oktavism channel too, with a really good Bb1 at the end of some song that's sung mostly in octave 3.

[Homelander]

Oct 22, 2024 13:34:01 GMT Steingrim said:

Oct 22, 2024 13:28:43 GMT Homelander said:

Yeah, around that Eb2 - F#2 area is where my lows are strongest. I'll make a recording when I'm able to.

That does sound like you are a bass. A low tessitura and a good and powerful E2 would describe a bass. Regardless you should be able to sing a modal low C if you work on it.

Exile-1.m4a (763.75 KB)

Here's me singing Bon Iver's verse of "exile" by Taylor Swift. Here's the original for comparison. I try to go for that B1 on the line "so what am I defending now", but it doesn't really work. Aside from that, the Eb2s and F#2s were pretty easy, I guess. I'm more surprised by my ability to stay kinda on-key for this one.

[Steingrim]

Oct 27, 2024 23:19:55 GMT Homelander said:

Oct 22, 2024 13:34:01 GMT Steingrim said:

That does sound like you are a bass. A low tessitura and a good and powerful E2 would describe a bass. Regardless you should be able to sing a modal low C if you work on it.

View Attachment

Here's me singing Bon Iver's verse of "exile" by Taylor Swift. Here's the original for comparison. I try to go for that B1 on the line "so what am I defending now", but it doesn't really work. Aside from that, the Eb2s and F#2s were pretty easy, I guess. I'm more surprised by my ability to stay kinda on-key for this one.

The Eb2s were pretty grainy but it could be a closure issue. You may feel that a B1 is "there somewhere" in your voice, but I think that you actually landed on another grainy Eb2. I heard a Bb2 somewhere that was very easy. Your timbre is dark and your general placement is probably several semitones lower than mine. 

My jazz singer friend has a good natured C#3 but from adolesence she's been in the habit of losening up on vocal fold closure starting minutely at F3 and it's noticeable at a somewhat breathy Eb3. She's working on that at the moment, and for her it may amount to breaking a habit more than anything else. Breathy low notes can work for jazz, but it doesn't always. I'm not sure if grainy low notes revolves around the same basic problem, but for me it can be a strength endurance issue.

[amadeusd]

Oct 27, 2024 23:19:55 GMT Homelander said:

Oct 22, 2024 13:34:01 GMT Steingrim said:

That does sound like you are a bass. A low tessitura and a good and powerful E2 would describe a bass. Regardless you should be able to sing a modal low C if you work on it.

View Attachment

Here's me singing Bon Iver's verse of "exile" by Taylor Swift. Here's the original for comparison. I try to go for that B1 on the line "so what am I defending now", but it doesn't really work. Aside from that, the Eb2s and F#2s were pretty easy, I guess. I'm more surprised by my ability to stay kinda on-key for this one.

I tend to get a  C2 for this (as is the case with my clip on Discord) which is surprisingly full and strong. I wouldn't worry about the tone too much... Anything below about D2 is going to be 'grainy'. That's what's happening down that low...Even in extremely good operatic singing.
In any case, to get below my standard C# lows, its a matter of almost sighing into it. Like, understand you're going lower than you 'actually can' and kind of "ahh what the hey" down into it. Eventually, can tighten it up and hit notes like my version of this verse but its really hard to 'force' so I figured, go the other way lol. 
I can't find it this moment, but there's a guy on Youtube who uses this to help people find the harmonic for kargyraa throat singing. It only ever helped me get lower in modal voice and I had to get to throat sung subs another way, but I found it very helpful! I'll try find it and send on Disc. 

[Steingrim]

Oct 29, 2024 18:48:56 GMT amadeusd said:

Oct 27, 2024 23:19:55 GMT Homelander said:

View Attachment

Here's me singing Bon Iver's verse of "exile" by Taylor Swift. Here's the original for comparison. I try to go for that B1 on the line "so what am I defending now", but it doesn't really work. Aside from that, the Eb2s and F#2s were pretty easy, I guess. I'm more surprised by my ability to stay kinda on-key for this one.

I tend to get a  C2 for this (as is the case with my clip on Discord) which is surprisingly full and strong. I wouldn't worry about the tone too much... Anything below about D2 is going to be 'grainy'. That's what's happening down that low...Even in extremely good operatic singing.
In any case, to get below my standard C# lows, its a matter of almost sighing into it. Like, understand you're going lower than you 'actually can' and kind of "ahh what the hey" down into it. Eventually, can tighten it up and hit notes like my version of this verse but its really hard to 'force' so I figured, go the other way lol. 
I can't find it this moment, but there's a guy on Youtube who uses this to help people find the harmonic for kargyraa throat singing. It only ever helped me get lower in modal voice and I had to get to throat sung subs another way, but I found it very helpful! I'll try find it and send on Disc. 

Check out Glenn Miller's F#1 from The Song of Simeon, it's not grainy at all. youtu.be/NzLodlgIqEA?si=xC-BA8KSpqwzDJm7&t=260
This G#1 demo is louder. Again, no grain : youtu.be/ZmxC34GmqHM?si=SAHrIsnULTZ3ahvJ&t=14
(Loudspeakers with good bass may be required to hear the quality, my ancient chromebook is no good at 50 Hz)

[amadeusd]

It is. The best basses and Oktavists seem to just tighten up the grain to create what, in higher voices, is called rasp. Joplin styles lol.

[Steingrim]

Oct 30, 2024 1:31:40 GMT amadeusd said:

It is. The best basses and Oktavists seem to just tighten up the grain to create what, in higher voices, is called rasp. Joplin styles lol.

Most oktavists use fry voice in a choir situation to sing powerfully in octave 1. The result is a strong sound with good tone but a lot of crackliness, especially in the lower part of that octave.
When comparing the notes I linked from Glenn Miller, they are no more grainy than the corresponding notes on the online piano that I use. He really does sing in modal voice that low, he's a bass with a very powerful lower extension. Which is extremely rare.

Operatic basses sing in modal voice but the volume requirement often makes their lowest notes a bit tired and grainy. Kurt Moll was however capable of a very loud yet relaxed C2 : youtu.be/gBZzP9XxezA?si=h3nEMPsEIXGoz9FD&t=35

When a microphone is used, it's easy to find contemporary basses that sing C2 and below in modal voice with no graininess. Here's Avi Kaplan singing a couple of B1s. It's simply smooth : youtu.be/3oc1XuqzyGs?si=bljfV6qf3T5xdPWx&t=147

[kaji]

Oct 30, 2024 1:31:40 GMT amadeusd said:

It is. The best basses and Oktavists seem to just tighten up the grain to create what, in higher voices, is called rasp. Joplin styles lol.

I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense lol. 

Oct 30, 2024 5:30:35 GMT Steingrim said:

When a microphone is used, it's easy to find contemporary basses that sing C2 and below in modal voice with no graininess. Here's Avi Kaplan singing a couple of B1s. It's simply smooth : youtu.be/3oc1XuqzyGs?si=bljfV6qf3T5xdPWx&t=147

Alas, I don't hear this as smooth or clean.