J.D. Sumner (15,214 views)

[brutalism]

He may be a 'range wanker', or as I would put , 'range exhibitionist', but I must say I like his dry gravelly timbre. Not so resonant way down there, maybe, but his timbre does sound pretty nice to my ears. I prefer him down to F1-G1 though, not a big fan of his devillish voice as he goes lower.

[Steingrim]

Like most low bass singers, even of that time, he had to transfer over into a chest-fry mix to reach the incredibly low notes that were required of him. His double low Cs don't sound that bad but check out his D#1 at about 3:08 in "Old Man River", that's a distinctly modal note and he sings it loud and clear. I'd guess his tessitura to start at about G1, almost an octave lower than most bass capable singers, including myself.

[kaji]

Feb 9, 2022 8:56:20 GMT Steingrim said:

Like most low bass singers, even of that time, he had to transfer over into a chest-fry mix to reach the incredibly low notes that were required of him. His double low Cs don't sound that bad but check out his D#1 at about 3:08 in "Old Man River", that's a distinctly modal note and he sings it loud and clear. I'd guess his tessitura to start at about G1, almost an octave lower than most bass capable singers, including myself.

True chest voice does not exist that low.

[Steingrim]

Feb 10, 2022 13:24:14 GMT kaji said:

Feb 9, 2022 8:56:20 GMT Steingrim said:

Like most low bass singers, even of that time, he had to transfer over into a chest-fry mix to reach the incredibly low notes that were required of him. His double low Cs don't sound that bad but check out his D#1 at about 3:08 in "Old Man River", that's a distinctly modal note and he sings it loud and clear. I'd guess his tessitura to start at about G1, almost an octave lower than most bass capable singers, including myself.

True chest voice does not exist that low.

What criteria do you base that on ?

[kaji]

Feb 10, 2022 19:34:23 GMT Steingrim said:

Feb 10, 2022 13:24:14 GMT kaji said:

True chest voice does not exist that low.

What criteria do you base that on ?

Vocal science. Many studies done between 1998 and 2022 on the mechanism of chest voice. The one that confirmed it came in 2007 with the exploration into the laryngeal vibratory mechanisms.

[Steingrim]

Feb 10, 2022 20:02:13 GMT kaji said:

Feb 10, 2022 19:34:23 GMT Steingrim said:

What criteria do you base that on ?

Vocal science. Many studies done between 1998 and 2022 on the mechanism of chest voice. The one that confirmed it came in 2007 with the exploration into the laryngeal vibratory mechanisms.

The alleged size of J D Sumner's vocal chords suggests that he would be the best man for the job of singing that note. To me it sounds as good as it gets. The few recordings of Zlatopolsky singing solo have good high 1s but he fries his E1s. 

[kaji]

Feb 10, 2022 20:11:02 GMT Steingrim said:

Feb 10, 2022 20:02:13 GMT kaji said:

Vocal science. Many studies done between 1998 and 2022 on the mechanism of chest voice. The one that confirmed it came in 2007 with the exploration into the laryngeal vibratory mechanisms.

The alleged size of J D Sumner's vocal chords suggests that he would be the best man for the job of singing that note. To me it sounds as good as it gets. The few recordings of Zlatopolsky singing solo have good high 1s but he fries his E1s. 

Sounding fryish vs chesty that low is not indicative of a mechanism. There are certain limits to how the adult voice operates even if one is a natural dark low bass (which in JD’s case is debatable). Zlatopolsky and London Parris (I am doing a thread on the latter) are two men I’ve seen with the lowest tessitura in modal voice. JD Sumner sang low but if you hear his voice that is in its healthy state before he damaged it with heavy smoking you’ll notice a difference.

[Macca]

where's the G0 if the G0 doesn't count it should probably go into questionable notes

[Steingrim]

Feb 10, 2022 20:17:27 GMT kaji said:

Feb 10, 2022 20:11:02 GMT Steingrim said:

The alleged size of J D Sumner's vocal chords suggests that he would be the best man for the job of singing that note. To me it sounds as good as it gets. The few recordings of Zlatopolsky singing solo have good high 1s but he fries his E1s. 

Sounding fryish vs chesty that low is not indicative of a mechanism. There are certain limits to how the adult voice operates even if one is a natural dark low bass (which in JD’s case is debatable). Zlatopolsky and London Parris (I am doing a thread on the latter) are two men I’ve seen with the lowest tessitura in modal voice. JD Sumner sang low but if you hear his voice that is in its healthy state before he damaged it with heavy smoking you’ll notice a difference.

J D Sumner had good 1s in the 1950s. According to other band members he used a far lower input on his mic than his standins at that time did, he was quite able to sing powerfully in that octave. 

[Macca]

and also, on his old trp2 thread his highs began at C#4

[Henny Macc]

Feb 10, 2022 20:58:02 GMT Macca said:

and also, on his old trp2 thread his highs began at C#4

Thanks for sharing

[kaji]

Feb 10, 2022 20:56:42 GMT Steingrim said:

Feb 10, 2022 20:17:27 GMT kaji said:

Sounding fryish vs chesty that low is not indicative of a mechanism. There are certain limits to how the adult voice operates even if one is a natural dark low bass (which in JD’s case is debatable). Zlatopolsky and London Parris (I am doing a thread on the latter) are two men I’ve seen with the lowest tessitura in modal voice. JD Sumner sang low but if you hear his voice that is in its healthy state before he damaged it with heavy smoking you’ll notice a difference.

J D Sumner had good 1s in the 1950s. According to other band members he used a far lower input on his mic than his standins at that time did, he was quite able to sing powerfully in that octave. 

That does mean his tessitura sat lower than London or Mikhail. It just means he had a well-developed low extension. JD does showcase capability of true chest register down to low A-flat and possibly G though. As did the other singers I mention. But their passaggi sat lower. And there is a distinct difference in timbre, even with London using a very high laryngeal position most of the time

[Steingrim]

Feb 10, 2022 20:56:42 GMT Steingrim said:

Feb 10, 2022 20:17:27 GMT kaji said:

Sounding fryish vs chesty that low is not indicative of a mechanism. There are certain limits to how the adult voice operates even if one is a natural dark low bass (which in JD’s case is debatable). Zlatopolsky and London Parris (I am doing a thread on the latter) are two men I’ve seen with the lowest tessitura in modal voice. JD Sumner sang low but if you hear his voice that is in its healthy state before he damaged it with heavy smoking you’ll notice a difference.

J D Sumner had good 1s in the 1950s. According to other band members he used a far lower input on his mic than his standins at that time did, he was quite able to sing powerfully in that octave. 

"That does mean his tessitura sat lower than London or Mikhail. It just means he had a well-developed low extension. JD does showcase capability of true chest register down to low A-flat and possibly G though. As did the other singers I mention. But their passaggi sat lower. And there is a distinct difference in timbre, even with London using a very high laryngeal position most of the time"

---

I don't know the exact definition for tessitura, if there is in fact one. But how low one can sing comfortably compared to ones passagi differs from person to person, that isn't predefined. Thinking about myself, I have a baritone timbre with passagi at about C# and F but I can sing comfortably from E2-C5, with half an octave to spare on both sides. Apart from technicalities that I'm not aware of, my natural chest voice therefore extends a bit further than the average. If we compare Sumner to Zlatopolsky, then Zlatopolsky is the one with the highest recorded modal note, at about E4 or F4. Which makes it seem odd that his passagi would be lower than Sumner's. 

[Steingrim]

Feb 10, 2022 20:17:27 GMT kaji said:

Feb 10, 2022 20:11:02 GMT Steingrim said:

and London Parris (I am doing a thread on the latter)

Cool, he had stellar A1s !

[Steingrim]

Sumner has a good, long F#1 at the end of this recording from 1965 :

He eventually fries it as he goes into his speaking voice.



It's from this album : www.discogs.com/release/7649474-J-D-Sumner-Bass

[Ultimoot]

Feb 9, 2022 8:56:20 GMT Steingrim said:

Like most low bass singers, even of that time, he had to transfer over into a chest-fry mix to reach the incredibly low notes that were required of him. His double low Cs don't sound that bad but check out his D#1 at about 3:08 in "Old Man River", that's a distinctly modal note and he sings it loud and clear. I'd guess his tessitura to start at about G1, almost an octave lower than most bass capable singers, including myself.

Zlato used strohbass for the low stuff like C1 - Eb1, but I think he had those notes in chest though, just not suitably for a choir. He typically only counts down to F1-E1, but he has a daily low D/C

[Steingrim]

Mar 2, 2022 8:42:46 GMT Ultimoot said:

Feb 9, 2022 8:56:20 GMT Steingrim said:

Like most low bass singers, even of that time, he had to transfer over into a chest-fry mix to reach the incredibly low notes that were required of him. His double low Cs don't sound that bad but check out his D#1 at about 3:08 in "Old Man River", that's a distinctly modal note and he sings it loud and clear. I'd guess his tessitura to start at about G1, almost an octave lower than most bass capable singers, including myself.

Zlato used strohbass for the low stuff like C1 - Eb1, but I think he had those notes in chest though, just not suitably for a choir. He typically only counts down to F1-E1, but he has a daily low D/C

Some Russian singer on youtube transitions from C2-C1 in a doremi scale. It's not very good below say G1 but his ability to transition seemlessly makes it sound allright. People expect the lower first octave to sound like fry, it's sort of the norm. Zlatopolsky sang a short though decent F1 in Lullaby. 

[Steingrim]

J D Sumner vs Tim Storms, the guy who holds the current world record for the lowest (fry) note.





Sumner sings the song 2 semitones lower than Tim Storms. Even apart from that, the result is much better.

[Steingrim]

Feb 10, 2022 20:17:27 GMT kaji said:

Feb 10, 2022 20:11:02 GMT Steingrim said:

The alleged size of J D Sumner's vocal chords suggests that he would be the best man for the job of singing that note. To me it sounds as good as it gets. The few recordings of Zlatopolsky singing solo have good high 1s but he fries his E1s. 

Sounding fryish vs chesty that low is not indicative of a mechanism. There are certain limits to how the adult voice operates even if one is a natural dark low bass (which in JD’s case is debatable). Zlatopolsky and London Parris (I am doing a thread on the latter) are two men I’ve seen with the lowest tessitura in modal voice. JD Sumner sang low but if you hear his voice that is in its healthy state before he damaged it with heavy smoking you’ll notice a difference.

Here's London Parris hitting a pretty good F1.

youtu.be/qlGhS3GwHyo?t=168

[Homelander]

Here are the links to the C1 and C-sharp 4:

C1

C-sharp 4

[kaji]

Will this thread be redone / worked on? He has quite a large discography. 
These sites should have all the information necessary on his group/solo stuff:
sghistory.com/index.php?n=J.JDSumner
sghistory.com/index.php?n=S.SunnySouthQuartet
sghistory.com/index.php?n=S.SunshineBoys
sghistory.com/index.php?n=B.BlackwoodBrothers
sghistory.com/index.php?n=J.JDSumnerAndTheStampsQuartet
sghistory.com/index.php?n=M.MastersV

[Homelander]

May 23, 2023 22:16:55 GMT kaji said:

Will this thread be redone / worked on?

Not by me. BAZanine and Bink said they’d get around to it at some point.

[kaji]

F4 at 4:10 youtu.be/dvht5EbR7dg

[Henny Macc]

Is that really him? :shock: Never thought I'd see the day!

[Homelander]

I hope not, lol. That is one of the most pathetic-sounding F4s I’ve ever heard. It would be a shame if the nice C-sharp 4 that’s currently there was replaced.