Kyo (京) (15,611 views)

[sylvia!!]

the sounds of kyo impersonating a car getting broken into sound pretty clear to me

[IhateMana]

what you're doing in that clip is not what I'm hearing in the song at all :shrug:

[Electric Mami]

Not sure what more I can do then, this is close to what I hear (I'm not exactly at the same pitch) and the scream is definitely there, sorry :/

[Døc]

I’m with Mana on this. It just sounds like some extra air that happens to sound like an F#6 on top of that growl. And while I think the whistle fry tone on that recording is awesome, it doesn’t sound like what is going on in the song at all.

[Electric Mami]

No, "some extra air" doesn't sound like a properly executed and continuous whistle fry scream that goes E6-E♭6-F♯6 with strong 7th octave overtones at all, that's totally different. I think you're confusing the two because of the accidental whistle fry at 1:06 in “Utsutsu, Bouga o Kurau”, however the “Cause of fickleness” F♯6 is in a context that's drastically different from an accidental overtone on a "whispered" fry scream at the beginning of a sentence. I hear a clear but quick shift from chest to gritty chest to fry to a continuous whistle fry at the end of sentence. I just can't hear it any other way, especially considering how common it is from Kyo to shift to whistle fry like that. Put a FLAC of the song in Adobe Audition, slide it slowly at the shift, listen attentively, use the spectrogram to have a visual representation of the shift and the scream even. But if you don't hear it properly I'm sorry but it doesn't constitute as an argument to pass it as questionable due to identity or pitch, since the scream's quality itself can't even be discussed, by definition

[kuyashii]

I can't hear the F#6 at all. I don't doubt it exists, but if it takes so much in order to be heard, then it most likely it's not the most countable note either. We used to call that nanonotewatching. The F6 seems alright for me but I'm admitedly not that good with his approach for high screams

[Macca]

I'm only hearing the F♯6 as a brief E6 that's not countable

[Electric Mami]

The E6 is just the beginning of the scream, it keeps going for a bit

I know some of you can't hear it but I can still hear it as an actual proper scream and I'm not the only one who does. If y'all really don't like it I can pass it as questionable but really, I hear it and disagree that it's not countable. Well, to be fair I wasn't counting the E1 either until most people agreed on counting it, so…

[azuler]

I would like to happily report that I for the first time in my life was able to hear the note

[Electric Mami]

Okay so, yes I still hear it as a shift to whistle fry and a properly executed scream that I would count (and again, I'm not the only one), but there are enough people who doubt of the scream's legitimacy for me to at least reconsider my point of view on it. Yes, it's not because a note is controversial that it has to be questionable, but I also don't want to count dubious notes and look like a complete meme lol. It seems that not only the scream is rather short despite sounding alright to my ears, but it's also not even certain it's an overtone of a whistle fry with the fundamental peaking at F♯6, if it's a random overtone of unknown identity, if it's an overtone of a much lower scream, or why the hell the overtone is even there to begin with (in the case it's not an actual whistle fry scream, that is). So with the note being discussed with a few you here, and to be coherent with myself, I'm taking the preferable decision to actually pass it as questionable. Instead of writing an essay next to the note itself, I preferred to write it as ^[7] and define ^[7] lower.

[senatorsenpai]

The push to F♯6 on the scream is brief but I wouldn't say it's more "questionable" than any of his other high screams, the pitch is clear and he seems to be using the same technique.

[Electric Mami]

After gathering more opinions from the Discord server additionally to the latest comments here and who reacted to them, it is confirmed that there's still a considerable majority of people who hear the note and think it's countable/countable enough, so I'm actually gonna put it back. Thanks to all the people who gave a point of view on this note, making the final decision more mature and well discussed

[kuyashii]

That's why democracy is an error.

Seriously though, there's a version of "Ryoujoku no Ame" live at Nippon Budokan in 2006 from the Despair in the Womb DVD which has a better example of the E5 passage. I tried my best but couldn't find it anywhere though

[Electric Mami]

Ah yes, I love that performance. I considered it but yeah I also didn't find the vid (on YouTube, that is) and ended up finding the 2006 fancam which was similarly good imo. Technically, the Family Values release has an even better example of it, but I suspected it to have some pitch corrector in there (it sounds suspiciously good lol: youtu.be/k-sy51JYmu8?t=208 ), making the note more stable than it might actually be, that's also why I picked that 2006 fancam. I guess I'll host the DITW extract on Streamable like I did for a few other extracts. Thanks for the suggestion

Edit: Done, bold replaced

[kuyashii]

Do you have any way of isolating the alleged F#6? I hear the overtone in the clip when played in regular speed, but it doesn't sound nowhere as high as any of his 6th octave screams. I tried thinkering around with Audacity (lol I'm aware it's not the best tool for it though) with the "Remove vocals" tool (which mostly removes specific frequencies of center-panned audio) and then Paulstretching it and what I can sort of hear is an E6. I'm not opposed to it being counted if the majority feels like but I just would like to be able to hear it, because if it's something that is so obscured to the point of near-inaudibleness (?) and requires such work to be able to be heard it simply isn't worth being acknowledgeable IMO. Here's what I got

vocaroo.com/15VJL4VY2MqK

Also you didn't feel like counting the Before Construction version of Dozing Green? I reckon it's very different than the finished version enough to be able to count as a separate song altogether and I honestly consider the E5s on it better than the ones on the main version (both the japanese and english language versions) of the song.

[Electric Mami]

Yeah I totally understand that you want to hear it haha. So for a cool software I'd advise Ultimate Vocal Remover. The name sounds cheap, but it does a great job (better than AudioStrip imo)! As for the E6, it's probably the "loudest" (or less quiet lol) moment of the scream and it does peak E6 at first, then it gets down a little to E♭6, and then peaks at F♯6, so the scream is a little longer than just the first peak at E6. What I did, hopefully that can help, is increasing the whole 7th octave overtone passage of a few dBs from the output vocals file of UVR: voca.ro/17fCCxMaG6Co. Of course it sounds a little like it's coming out of nowhere since it's only the overtone that I enhanced, but I think you got the idea

As for the “DOZING GREEN” Before Construction Ver., I did acknowledge it in the thread (there's a F♯2 that I mentioned and that only exists in this version), it's just that most of the notes are also in the final version, and the song is called the same. So as I mentioned in the first section of "Details and Explanations", if the song has multiple versions with the same title and the note is hit in all the song's versions, I only mention the title, without a precision on the version (except I should've mentioned the G♯5's are only in the final version of “DOZING GREEN” lol). And I personally find the E5's more or less equivalent to the final album version I must say. I suppose the E5 you're rather have as bold for the BC version is the one at 2:25? I'll ask more opinions on the Discord and will see based on the feedback which E5 gets more love lol

[kuyashii]

Aug 16, 2023 11:02:22 GMT Electric Mami said:

E♭6 (“THE BLOSSOMING BEELZEBUB” Irving Plaza 2011/12/12)

Is it this noise? I definitely wouldn't count it, it's a pretty blatant crack IMO, and I hear it getting up to F6?

BTW, I finally hear the F#6 but I still think it's just an overtone and therefore not countable but if everyone disagrees I won't really say anything.

Aug 16, 2023 11:02:22 GMT Electric Mami said:

D6 (“Hageshisa to, Kono Mune no Naka de Karamitsuita Shakunetsu no Yami” House of Blues Chicago 2011/12/18)

It's this right (the last "the worst existence" before the "Dive like hell..." scream) ? I'm not opposed to counting this but I think it should be green.

Also, do you have a link to the "Miserable" live Eb6? That one isn't on YT. An audio rip is enough, thank you

[Electric Mami]

Oct 25, 2023 23:56:14 GMT kuyashii said:

Aug 16, 2023 11:02:22 GMT Electric Mami said:

E♭6 (“THE BLOSSOMING BEELZEBUB” Irving Plaza 2011/12/12)

Is it this noise? I definitely wouldn't count it, it's a pretty blatant crack IMO, and I hear it getting up to F6?

No it's not that and no way I'd count this anyway lol. It's this. I'm confident it's not inhaled either, contrarily to tons of notes in this tour.

Oct 25, 2023 23:56:14 GMT kuyashii said:

BTW, I finally hear the F#6 but I still think it's just an overtone and therefore not countable but if everyone disagrees I won't really say anything.

So here's my problem with the hypothesis of it being an overtone of something much lower: I don't see any other possible way than some EQ wizardry to have a (relatively) loud 7th octave overtone for a 4th octave grunt that the overtone doesn't even follow (the 4th octave grunt goes down, but the overtone goes up). And since the vocals in this passage aren't mixed any differently than usual, I think it is a separate scream with the fundamental at the 6th octave.

Oct 25, 2023 23:56:14 GMT kuyashii said:

Aug 16, 2023 11:02:22 GMT Electric Mami said:

D6 (“Hageshisa to, Kono Mune no Naka de Karamitsuita Shakunetsu no Yami” House of Blues Chicago 2011/12/18)

It's this right (the last "the worst existence" before the "Dive like hell..." scream) ? I'm not opposed to counting this but I think it should be green.

Yup that's it! Well the D6 by itself scweamy but not really distorted imo (no signature overtone of the whistle fry, just a little gritty) which is why I went for black and non-melodic. I used black (usually non-melodic too) when he missed his whistle fry screams and made a gritty high mix instead (the B♭5 during “BUGABOO” at Wacken Open Air 2011 is my favourite instance of that).

Oct 25, 2023 23:56:14 GMT kuyashii said:

Also, do you have a link to the "Miserable" live Eb6? That one isn't on YT. An audio rip is enough, thank you

I'll send you that in PM!

Also I really appreciate you discussing about some precise notes and actually going through the fancams to check by yourself. I'm glad there can be some debate about it and to have tangible proof that the live material doc was actually explored ^.^

[kuyashii]

Oct 26, 2023 0:49:26 GMT Electric Mami said:

Oct 25, 2023 23:56:14 GMT kuyashii said:

Is it this noise? I definitely wouldn't count it, it's a pretty blatant crack IMO, and I hear it getting up to F6?

No it's not that and no way I'd count this anyway lol. It's this. I'm confident it's not inhaled either, contrarily to tons of notes in this tour.

Oh I see. I assumed this was inhaled because of the little "dolphin stacattos" that, while are possible obtaining with exhales, are usually associated with inhaled notes, also there are this sort of "pick scrape" texture that again, while it's possible adding in an exhaled note, it's usually a sign of an inhale and the quality of the texture in this example really make me lean towards inhales. The quality isn't that good so it's hard for me to be sure, since the audio is quite clipped and Kyo's microphone approach is kinda... unorthodox during the part. I definitely don't know what should be made of that note TBH. The B5 on that performance is pretty great though

Oct 26, 2023 0:49:26 GMT Electric Mami said:

Oct 25, 2023 23:56:14 GMT kuyashii said:

So here's my problem with the hypothesis of it being an overtone of something much lower: I don't see any other possible way than some EQ wizardry to have a (relatively) loud 7th octave overtone for a 4th octave grunt that the overtone doesn't even follow (the 4th octave grunt goes down, but the overtone goes up). And since the vocals in this passage aren't mixed any differently than usual, I think it is a separate scream with the fundamental at the 6th octave.

Yeah I get it. It's kind of underwhelming though, but I'm up to whatever people are up to.

Oct 26, 2023 0:49:26 GMT Electric Mami said:

Oct 25, 2023 23:56:14 GMT kuyashii said:

It's th

Oct 26, 2023 0:49:26 GMT Electric Mami said:

is right (the last "the worst existence" before the "Dive like hell..." scream) ? I'm not opposed to counting this but I think it should be green.

Yup that's it! Well the D6 by itself scweamy but not really distorted imo (no signature overtone of the whistle fry, just a little gritty) which is why I went for black and non-melodic. I used black (usually non-melodic too) when he missed his whistle fry screams and made a gritty high mix instead (the B♭5 during “BUGABOO” at Wacken Open Air 2011 is my favourite instance of that).

Yeah I get it too.

Oct 26, 2023 0:49:26 GMT Electric Mami said:

Oct 25, 2023 23:56:14 GMT kuyashii said:

Also, do you have a link to the "Miserable" live Eb6? That one isn't on YT. An audio rip is enough, thank you

I'll send you that in PM!

Thanks. Isn't that just a B5 though?

Also I really appreciate you discussing about some precise notes and actually going through the fancams to check by yourself. I'm glad there can be some debate about it and to have tangible proof that the live material doc was actually explored ^.^

Please be sure I'm not minimodding nor doubting the legitimacy of your work, it's just that as someone who made previous iteractions of Kyo's thread I'm aware he can be an absolute nightmare to notewatch. No shots at the previous thread researches, but I felt like they never took the time to recheck some of the stuff that I notewatched (I went really deep into checking live performances, I had like 80GB worth of DVD footage and stuff on my computer around 2014 and a lot of that research was simply discarded unchecked) so I never got a confirmation on a lot of stuff. And then you went one step further to notewatch literally every live video ever lol so I'm both curious about those notes. I'm also becoming interested in Kyo's work again after a few years out of love with his music. Phalaris wasn't the best, but a huge step up from TIW with many great moments and Erosio is one of my favorite albums of the year so far (and I was never a big Sukekiyo fan to begin with).

[Electric Mami]

Oct 26, 2023 14:39:02 GMT kuyashii said:

Oh I see. I assumed this was inhaled because of the little "dolphin stacattos" that, while are possible obtaining with exhales, are usually associated with inhaled notes, also there are this sort of "pick scrape" texture that again, while it's possible adding in an exhaled note, it's usually a sign of an inhale and the quality of the texture in this example really make me lean towards inhales. The quality isn't that good so it's hard for me to be sure, since the audio is quite clipped and Kyo's microphone approach is kinda... unorthodox during the part. I definitely don't know what should be made of that note TBH. The B5 on that performance is pretty great though

Yeah both options are entirely possible, so I can't be too certain unfortunately :/. I tried searching for other fancams of that performance but in vain.

Oct 26, 2023 14:39:02 GMT kuyashii said:

Yeah I get it. It's kind of underwhelming though, but I'm up to whatever people are up to.

Agreed that it's not the most exciting. I was like "OH MY GOD" when I realised, but taking a step back, it is underwhelming lol. The “AMON” F6 at least has the merit to be clear and tangibly decent.

Oct 26, 2023 14:39:02 GMT kuyashii said:

Thanks. Isn't that just a B5 though?

It's hella nasty of a scream so it's possible I got tricked by extra overtones tbh. I'll ask opinions in the Discord server!

Oct 26, 2023 14:39:02 GMT kuyashii said:

Please be sure I'm not minimodding nor doubting the legitimacy of your work, it's just that as someone who made previous iteractions of Kyo's thread I'm aware he can be an absolute nightmare to notewatch. No shots at the previous thread researches, but I felt like they never took the time to recheck some of the stuff that I notewatched (I went really deep into checking live performances, I had like 80GB worth of DVD footage and stuff on my computer around 2014 and a lot of that research was simply discarded unchecked) so I never got a confirmation on a lot of stuff. And then you went one step further to notewatch literally every live video ever lol so I'm both curious about those notes. I'm also becoming interested in Kyo's work again after a few years out of love with his music. Phalaris wasn't the best, but a huge step up from TIW with many great moments and Erosio is one of my favorite albums of the year so far (and I was never a big Sukekiyo fan to begin with).

Yeah no problem, I didn't misinterpret your intentions ^.^. He definitely was a nightmare to notewatch and I honestly went obsessed with notewatching him to an unhealthy degree (woops). I happen to have a total of 1.72 TB of data on my end when combining my DIR EN GREY, sukekiyo and Petit Brabancon archives personally, so I had plenty of material to go through and I really wanted to leave a lot of place for live notes haha. As for PHALARIS I think its main problem is the lack of cohesion personally, but I loved the composition on the individual tracks. Loved EROSIO too.

[shinda6]

youtu.be/F2LA1A-y5AA?si=fxrqisqQQ8aXK5Dn&t=251  4:12  E6?

youtu.be/NHq7quYL2iE?si=F0c-w-hx9ZIPPiFK&t=128   2:08  Bb5/Bb6?

youtu.be/0BA5gcr1D10?si=SZBz62nyh2mFtKOD&t=88  1:28 / 2:30 / 3:45

youtu.be/4E2TpTtYLZk?si=sWKvo_mn40F-9Mfy&t=86  1:28 / 1:42 

youtu.be/lKadvqdFdJ8?si=QBystu2apj_rUHo-&t=155  2:35 / 3:18 / 3:28

youtu.be/Vt8xyWN79Oc?si=C2FXwYCOx9CYc6qm&t=15 0:16 

youtu.be/v0iAsGPn18o?si=ANMqtckcF_oORj-N&t=208 3:29 

youtu.be/5jaeMRnnPWI?si=2HUYX_mF-mXfGqLD&t=207 3:28 / 3:42

youtu.be/OZXplEIAZmc?si=xqi5u2WwHCURcs8l&t=212  3:32

youtu.be/JPkFbro1_14?si=oUazvIxkt7qwFZZX&t=100  1:40 / 2:47 / 4:01
 
youtu.be/Syce4Z90PV8?si=PnEU8AKT8d7IPMdA&t=81  1:21

youtu.be/Yx8LB7QTp54?si=YiLhTl8i6pTi1Wsl&t=96  3:56 / 6:43 /7:47

youtu.be/4EG4jbGF1dA?si=SZlnYKiqZpt8MxBJ&t=319    6:47

[Electric Mami]

Hey there, thanks for sharing some notes! So I actually already checked all of these, but I'll still tell you the notes. Please check the notewatched live material doc I linked in the spoiler at the bottom of the thread!

Rasetsukoku - C6
Tsumi to Batsu - A5
OBSCURE - C6 / A5 / B♭5
Karma - B5 / B♭5
STUCK MAN - B♭5 / B♭5 / B♭5
Reiketsu Nariseba - C♯6
Shitataru Mourou - B♭5 and B5 a few seconds later
Shitataru Mourou - A5 / G♯5
Shitataru Mourou - B5
DREAMBOX - A5 / super overtoney A5 / A5
AGITATED SCREAMS OF MAGGOTS -UNPLUGGED- - G6 but inhaled
Soundwave Sydney - C♯6 / A5 and B5 / B5
Tsumi to Batsu - C6, I love this one

[Døc]

I am actually pretty convinced that mami has seen every single Diru fancam in existence.

[shinda6]

Thanks for the quick response, I have a doubt about these notes, I don't know if they are from the 5th or 6th octave youtu.be/84mjhmJKogQ?si=AhHYId3YmhjvUoDF&t=270 4:32 4:48

[Electric Mami]

B5 on both. Kyo is great at completely erasing the fundamental on this screams