|
|
Post by avi on Sept 2, 2024 2:05:59 GMT
If nobody got me i know electric mami got me
|
|
|
|
Post by VocalDudeGuy on Sept 2, 2024 3:13:14 GMT
{Fresh Tendrils A2 Timi brought up a while back, exacuted in a similar manner to the Outshined A2's} {A2 for Like Suicide as well} {F5 at 0:06} {Head Down C5's at 49:11 then an Eb5 at 49:18, this part goes hard. My Wave also has Eb5 at 17:20, is done in several live shows} youtu.be/MZ2NwO2snvQ?t=2951Since we seem keen on destroying the outshined F#5, might as well add in the live one back into the thread which I don't think you've done. There's a G#4 in this 30 sec section that's kinda hard to justify as musicial iirc, but this absolute wtf moment shouldn't go unshared Today I learned that Euphoria Mourning performances of Boot Camp get to A4. Also a falsetto B4 at 2:47 youtu.be/E170XwFYs8U?t=149And the Studio version of bootcamp has a G#4 at 2:13 |
|
|
|
Post by motorist on Sept 2, 2024 4:25:07 GMT
4th Of July E5s are pretty blistering from memory? Similar to the Let Me Drown F/F# ends at E♭5 (in an attempt to mind-read your motives, that's my assumption of what you're referring to) the E5 that vocaldudeguy linked is a backing vocal, it's arguably not obscured but I put it there anyway as it was missed. Both are linked in the "most range-spanning performances" section. As for the outshined F♯5, it's short and rechecking today it seems quite flat as well, so with Electric Mami's opinion against it too, I've reverted it to F5 I think listing the F♯5 as overshot in questionable is for the best. I'll readd the live F♯5 too (whoops, oversight), seems more likely intentional even though it is still flat, again if there's argument against that I could ignore it too. I found some backing A2s in the process, which is cool, again extremities are linked in "most range-spanning performances". Also I'm having a bit of doubt about if the Bumbershoot 1988 performance is even sped up, I'm not sure there's sharp pitches on the guitar notes or vocal lines compared to other performances / studio versions though it does have an odd sound (which, coming around to amadeus's opinions, is not conclusive). Intro to I Awake Bumbershoot 1988: youtu.be/OQ_Nh--F0_I?t=844Intro to I Awake Studio: www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_s5Wfjmg-I (listening again, sounds flatter but it could even be just due to bends? more opinions wanted) I am really not as good at making these determinations of what's sped up as my previous self-absorbed expert-mentality comments suggest. It might not be, or it might just be slightly sped up - enough to make the Communication Breakdown "G♯5" be actually a G5, or not, I can't tell, but I'm reasonably sure it's not a full or most of a semitone for now. I can't hear a B♭5 currently in the "Head Injury" performance, the highest I get is a sharp A5, but if there really is a B♭5 it MIGHT (KEYWORD: MIGHT, I am not going to just put it in without significant opinions in favor) be countable. Also I'll add those notes vocaldudeguy linked and get to notewatching the rest of the "Temple of the Dog" live performances. I'll even link that spoken note timi gave in the summary. Sidenote, I really dislike the amount of unused space in posts when it's just a line or two in a comment, not saying people should post those less but it's so much scrolling required with the standard empty space given to posts. |
|
|
|
Post by amadeusd on Sept 2, 2024 5:19:08 GMT
Also I'm having a bit of doubt about if the Bumbershoot 1988 performance is even sped up I have never thought it was, but I've been somewhat reluctant to accept sped-up tape anyway. I will check the HEad Injury note though because that's important. |
|
|
|
Post by VocalDudeGuy on Sept 4, 2024 17:41:13 GMT
4th Of July E5s are pretty blistering from memory? Similar to the Let Me Drown F/F# ends at E♭5 (in an attempt to mind-read your motives, that's my assumption of what you're referring to) the E5 that vocaldudeguy linked is a backing vocal, it's arguably not obscured but I put it there anyway as it was missed. Both are linked in the "most range-spanning performances" section. As for the outshined F♯5, it's short and rechecking today it seems quite flat as well, so with Electric Mami's opinion against it too, I've reverted it to F5 I think listing the F♯5 as overshot in questionable is for the best. I'll readd the live F♯5 too (whoops, oversight), seems more likely intentional even though it is still flat, again if there's argument against that I could ignore it too. I found some backing A2s in the process, which is cool, again extremities are linked in "most range-spanning performances". Also I'm having a bit of doubt about if the Bumbershoot 1988 performance is even sped up, I'm not sure there's sharp pitches on the guitar notes or vocal lines compared to other performances / studio versions though it does have an odd sound (which, coming around to amadeus's opinions, is not conclusive). Intro to I Awake Bumbershoot 1988: youtu.be/OQ_Nh--F0_I?t=844Intro to I Awake Studio: www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_s5Wfjmg-I (listening again, sounds flatter but it could even be just due to bends? more opinions wanted) I am really not as good at making these determinations of what's sped up as my previous self-absorbed expert-mentality comments suggest. It might not be, or it might just be slightly sped up - enough to make the Communication Breakdown "G♯5" be actually a G5, or not, I can't tell, but I'm reasonably sure it's not a full or most of a semitone for now. I can't hear a B♭5 currently in the "Head Injury" performance, the highest I get is a sharp A5, but if there really is a B♭5 it MIGHT (KEYWORD: MIGHT, I am not going to just put it in without significant opinions in favor) be countable. Also I'll add those notes vocaldudeguy linked and get to notewatching the rest of the "Temple of the Dog" live performances. I'll even link that spoken note timi gave in the summary. Sidenote, I really dislike the amount of unused space in posts when it's just a line or two in a comment, not saying people should post those less but it's so much scrolling required with the standard empty space given to posts. It's interesting, despite the high pitched sound to his voice he does seem relatively on key for many parts, although with smokestack lighting, I think some of the notes sound sharper than they shoud, although it can be hard to compare since the lyrics are the beginning aren't the same. Since the "Shining like Gold" E3 at around 0:40 in the studio version is "Wheels come drivin' slow" on the same part in the bumbershoot show. Plus im in a little bit of a rush rn to compare the 2 in-depth atm, will prob look further later on. Interestingly enough, I'm hearing the studio version of Smokestack Lighting briefly touch G#5 at 24:48 with "Wheels go drivin' slow." Also don't know if you're busy or just forgor but you haven't updated the thread to include the stuff in my previous comment. |
|
|
|
Post by motorist on Sept 5, 2024 3:47:35 GMT
Interestingly enough, I'm hearing the studio version of Smokestack Lighting briefly touch G#5 at 24:48 with "Wheels go drivin' slow." Since it's quite flat and the one at 24:58 on "wheels GO driving slow" sounds more like a sharp G5 (to me, right now), I'm still leaving this one out. I don't know if I want to put this one in questionable notes or avoid mentioning it entirely, I might be removing a few more notes from the questionable section. Also don't know if you're busy or just forgor but you haven't updated the thread to include the stuff in my previous comment. I posted an update with the stuff you posted & a few TOTD live notes, but let me know if I missed or mismarked anything (I likely did), I'd prefer by PM due to the space posts take up here but whatever. To note, this thread isn't super easy to update as I work from a 20+ page google doc (not even including rebaru's thread within that I paste in separately, too big to update from this site for me) and it's been 3 days, I didn't forget. A lot of the notes in the "Submission" live performance seemed flat to me (like the F5, and also comparing notes with those from the studio version like the Bb3s&C4s: youtu.be/T75th02zibg?t=70 ) so I thought the tape speed was slow on that one. It's hard to tell and I may be imagining this so if anyone objects I would like to hear, I'm really trying not to overdo this. I'm not hearing the vocals as consistently on pitch to a half-step down, though he could also be singing flat notes of course. I might go back and remove the * marking from the Bumbershoot 88 performance later too (and move "Communication Breakdown" to G#5, and "Head Injury" to Bb5 IF I hear it and people agree) but for now all I've done is italicize the Head Injury yelps. |
|
|
|
Post by amadeusd on Sept 5, 2024 19:54:31 GMT
motorist VocalDudeGuy for what my opinion is worth, I've revisited the 4th Of July E/Ebs and they are in fact, E/Ebs in the same way the Hunger Strike C3/B2 is both. It hovers over the mark. This is why it's been pitched as both, over the years, i'd hazard (it "was an E5" for years before TRP existed, pitched by many). For the Smokestack "G#" I don't even get it going sharp really. There's is something that touches it though - the "ooooh" between the two "wheels go/come driving slow"s. It's accidental, for sure though, and extremely brief. It's actually slightly more "countable" in the Bumbershoot performance lmao and that's actually worse, technically. I wouldn't count either example. I can't hear a B♭5 currently in the "He As for the Head Injury, I could only assume it is meant to be one of the weird puppy yelps near the end? If so, yes, a couple of them are Bb5s. I think they are countable, though I assume this forum would actually [1] them. For consistency, that's probably correct, but I have seen Mami count some lows in her j/k-pop threads that are way, way worse than lows being kept out of the Patton thread, so idk. I'd count them.
|
|
|
|
Post by VocalDudeGuy on Sept 13, 2024 0:35:55 GMT
My take is that the second "wheels go driving slow" hits G#5 before sliding down to G5 by the end of the vowel. It also clearly sounds higher to me in pitch than what Amadusd mentioned. The final "go" also starts slightly sharper than the rest of the line but not enough to be G#5. I won't lose sleep if you don't count it tho, especially since the portland note is better imo.
Countable low at 4:00?
Dusty D2 at 1:28:55, happens around 6:05 in the Dusty D5 live link but this one is higher resolution meaning its not less pixalated than a snes game
I know you said you wanted findings to be sent through discord but you haven't been responding to any of my recent messages so idk here you go
love it when my spoilers don't display the text I made sure to put in the spoiler title (comment intitally had spoilers)
|
|
|
|
Post by amadeusd on Sept 13, 2024 1:44:19 GMT
It also clearly sounds higher to me in pitch than what Amadusd mentioned Because the note you're talking about is sharper in tone. It isn't higher. |
|
|
|
Post by motorist on Sept 13, 2024 5:09:53 GMT
My take is that the second "wheels go driving slow" hits G#5 before sliding down to G5 by the end of the vowel. It also clearly sounds higher to me in pitch than what Amadusd mentioned. The final "go" also starts slightly sharper than the rest of the line but not enough to be G#5. I won't lose sleep if you don't count it tho, especially since the portland note is better imo. I hear it getting to G#5 now but it's even shorter than the first. Could be a lazy attempt at some dynamics, but not enough to actually count as a G#5 to me so I've just marked it as overshot in questionable as it sounds flat and is short. It could even be me mishearing note qualities as higher pitch as amadeus said. This one might not even be intentional and I can't really make out a clear pitch. I've marked it as A2 in questionable. {Dusty D2 at 1:28:55, happens around 6:05 in the Dusty D5 live link but this one is higher resolution meaning its not less pixalated than a snes game}
I added this to questionable notes, can't really count it, though you may have already intended for me not to. Great find though, thanks. And I hear the Bb5s in Head Injury now but as 2 fractional resonances on already short yelps that seem to be A5s otherwise, so I've marked them as [1]. If it repeated 6 times instead of 2, maybe. Also Amadeus's misquote suggested vocaldudeguy didn't hear them instead of me, ha. |
|
|
|
Post by VocalDudeGuy on Sept 13, 2024 5:25:44 GMT
This one might not even be intentional and I can't really make out a clear pitch. I've marked it as A2 in questionable. {Dusty D2 at 1:28:55, happens around 6:05 in the Dusty D5 live link but this one is higher resolution meaning its not less pixalated than a snes game}
I added this to questionable notes, can't really count it, though you may have already intended for me not to. Great find though, thanks. Without taking tape speed into account, I hear the Ferry Boat low as a G#2. Idk about marking the Dusty D2 note as questionable tho. I don't think the actual quality of the note is really an issue as its somewhat resonent and isn't short enough to be considered an unintentional dip imo. Do you not consider the note musical enough? |
|
|
|
Post by motorist on Sept 13, 2024 6:10:13 GMT
Without taking tape speed into account, I hear the Ferry Boat low as a G#2. Idk about marking the Dusty D2 note as questionable tho. I don't think the actual quality of the note is really an issue as its somewhat resonent and isn't short enough to be considered an unintentional dip imo. Do you not consider the note musical enough? The D2 (not even sure on that pitch) has a strange fried technique behind it, quite similar to the Jesus Christ Pose F3?-G#2 from the same concert to my ears. I don't know exactly what he's doing but to me he's just throwing out a gurgly sound without much intention of making it musical in quality, and the quality of the note he produces is too low to count in my opinion. I moved the Ferry Boat A2 in questionable to G#2, some pitchings I have gotten a flat A2 rather than sharp A2 so I guess it could be a G#2 considering tape speed. |
|
|
|
Post by avi on Sept 14, 2024 18:52:15 GMT
Strong disagree on not counting that Stargazer A4, can't really see any reason not to count it
|
|
|
|
Post by motorist on Sept 16, 2024 14:55:09 GMT
avi I wanted to put this in questionable notes as an example of his voice really failing him because it sounds like he almost cracks twice (to me), the first time being almost immediate, singing a non-sustained note that isn't high for him. However, since his voice didn't fully crack it's maybe not fair to put it in questionable, harsh screamers have notes like this that are included, so I moved it.
|
|
|
|
Post by avi on Sept 16, 2024 15:32:02 GMT
yeah, I've had the impulse to distinguish some really bad notes too, but even if it's not great, it's still definitely countable. if it was enough of a crack to be close to pitchless i'd agree not to count it |
|
|
|
Post by amadeusd on Sept 16, 2024 19:43:14 GMT
It's overinclusion at that point, though. It's not a great note/run of notes (taking cracks into account).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by avi on Sept 16, 2024 20:59:17 GMT
It's overinclusion at that point, though. It's not a great note/run of notes (taking cracks into account). Disagreed on this interpretation of overinclusion honestly. Live performances are just as valuable as studio performances (if not more valuable since they can't be retried to perfection), and we wouldn't not include a studio note because we don't like how it sounds. (i hope at least :P) For an example of what I consider overinclusion, I generally don't include pitched-up/pitched-down live performances unless the new note is genuinely significant - I didn't include this E flat 3 in Hozier's thread, because including everything would lead to a thread with 1.5x the listed notes for barely any more information, but I included this G2 in Dan Andriano's, because it's his lowest ever live note. That's subjective, though - this thread isn't wrong for including a few live performances pitched up or down one semitone in relatively unimpressive range, it's just not how I would do it. |
|
|
|
Post by amadeusd on Sept 17, 2024 2:25:54 GMT
All your points heard, and understood. I have no issues at all including live performances, particularly where they don't exist in the studio. Even then, certain live notes i'd use to replace the studio examples. No issues with those matters. However, on a plain reading of hte concept of over-inclusion, adding notes that do nothing for the singer's repertoire seems both redundant, space/time-wasting and a bad representation of that singer. He has plenty of A4s that aren't of questionable quality - why would we include any that aren't of a good quality? Perhaps I'm not understanding the nature of the threads, but as far as I can tell, we're meant to be noting note-worthy notes. Not pitching everything the singer has ever sung. What's the go there? |
|
|
|
Post by avi on Sept 17, 2024 2:44:42 GMT
I don't really think the point is to highlight only the "good quality" notes from singers, that'd end up with a lot of unrepresentative threads that make everyone seem a lot better than they are, we're trying to basically represent the singer's repertoire and what they can sing. The point of questionable notes is basically to remove notes that we don't think the singer can actually sing - yelps, speaking, inhales, etc don't count as singing by our definition.
Even beyond that, I think this particular note is actually valuable information, substantiating a downward trend in Cornell's range and quality later in his life which is definitely relevant for any discussion about his vocal range. And it's not questionable quality at all to me in terms of actual production - even with some shakiness, it's clearly an A4, in context, with pitch and everything. Excluding notes like this is drawing a really subjective and arbitrary line as to what we consider good singing which I think we should be avoiding.
|
|
|
|
Post by VocalDudeGuy on Sept 17, 2024 3:19:32 GMT
I think the note is countable, and I have no issue with it being in the thread, but I don't think the note is a super accurate repersentation of his general capabilities at the time. Even with the loss in range, A4 almost never was that difficult a note for him to do. Hell, a couple of Hunger Strike performances around that same time has him nailing the B4's, and you can find decent 5th octave notes in 2017. You could maybe say that he could struggle with 4th octave notes if he approached them in a certain style or was tired/fatigued, as he seemed to be in the stargazer performance. In that case you wouldn't be wrong, but some could possibly interpret this comment as you saying A4 was reg a hard note for him, and whie it wasn't exactly effortless, there's still plently of good A4's and notes higher than that from the time. Edit: Not sure if this is a problem on my side, but using the search function to find specific songs just does not seem to work for me most of the time. Edit 2, electric bogoloo: That moment when he has more questionable notes in the C2-F2 range than in the actual thread... |
|
|
|
Post by avi on Sept 17, 2024 15:31:23 GMT
Even with the loss in range, A4 almost never was that difficult a note for him to do Yeah, it's an outside example, but it's still contributing to the conversation imo. A4 was definitely harder for him here than it had been previously. |
|
|
|
Post by amadeusd on Sept 17, 2024 19:46:09 GMT
Ok, it seems i've underestimated the breadth of the threads. I suppose I'd just say "seems weird" and leave it there :P Thanks for hte explainer.
|
|
|
|
Post by VocalDudeGuy on Sept 29, 2024 2:19:11 GMT
{Theres G#2s at 3:29 and 3:44 in this performance of Misery Chain and the movie version also has them at 4:27 and 4:41 although they seem a bit shorter and harder to hear. }
|
|
|
|
Post by motorist on Oct 1, 2024 20:24:39 GMT
{Theres G#2s at 3:29 and 3:44 in this performance of Misery Chain and the movie version also has them at 4:27 and 4:41 although they seem a bit shorter and harder to hear. }
Thanks, though I'm hearing these as A2 with brief resonances that might reach sharp G#2s, he's singing it pretty lazily. I think it would be on key to match A4s in another part of the song. |
|
