Where is my first and second passaggio? (2,155 views)

[Death Con 3]

The image is just a random meme I had on my desktop since it wouldn't let me upload it to YouTube without a photo. Is my passaggio higher than average for an adult man?

[Steingrim]

Nov 9, 2024 5:04:04 GMT Death Con 3 said:

The image is just a random meme I had on my desktop since it wouldn't let me upload it to YouTube without a photo. Is my passaggio higher than average for an adult man?

Probably a little bit?

[Death Con 3]

Nov 9, 2024 7:29:15 GMT Steingrim said:

Nov 9, 2024 5:04:04 GMT Death Con 3 said:

The image is just a random meme I had on my desktop since it wouldn't let me upload it to YouTube without a photo. Is my passaggio higher than average for an adult man?

Probably a little bit?

Thanks! Where is the average man's passaggio and where is mine?

[Steingrim]

Nov 9, 2024 8:02:27 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Nov 9, 2024 7:29:15 GMT Steingrim said:

Probably a little bit?

Thanks! Where is the average man's passaggio and where is mine?

B3-E4 is fairly average. I don't know, but something seems to happen above F.

[Death Con 3]

Nov 9, 2024 8:04:08 GMT Steingrim said:

Nov 9, 2024 8:02:27 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Thanks! Where is the average man's passaggio and where is mine?

B3-E4 is fairly average. I don't know, but something seems to happen above F.

B3 for first passaggio and E4 for second, right?

For what it's worth, I can sing along to the "Jingle Bell Rock" scene in Mean Girls pretty easily (on a scale of 1 to 10, probably a 2.5 in difficulty)

[Steingrim]

C-F is a low tenor. If it's higher than that, prove it by singing well. Maybe you can reach a D5 or something, but it doesn't prove anything.

[kaji]

Unless you sing opera, this is not very useful for you to classify your passaggi. Moreover classifying your passaggi without knowing how to cover (classical technique) is unlikely to be accurate.

[Steingrim]

Nov 9, 2024 18:59:54 GMT kaji said:

Unless you sing opera, this is not very useful for you to classify your passaggi. Moreover classifying your passaggi without knowing how to cover (classical technique) is unlikely to be accurate.

It's not a classificaton, more like a guess.

[kaji]

Nov 9, 2024 19:17:56 GMT Steingrim said:

Nov 9, 2024 18:59:54 GMT kaji said:

Unless you sing opera, this is not very useful for you to classify your passaggi. Moreover classifying your passaggi without knowing how to cover (classical technique) is unlikely to be accurate.

It's not a classificaton, more like a guess.

That is still a form of classification. Even in lessons, the teacher essentially makes an assumption. Very few of them measure your voice on an spectral analysis software to track the acoustic events.

[Steingrim]

Nov 10, 2024 5:11:41 GMT kaji said:

Nov 9, 2024 19:17:56 GMT Steingrim said:

It's not a classificaton, more like a guess.

That is still a form of classification. Even in lessons, the teacher essentially makes an assumption. Very few of them measure your voice on an spectral analysis software to track the acoustic events.

Just because I mentioned that C-F is a low tenor doesn't mean that he is that. He doesn't sound like an obvious high singer, but he did reach a C5 in the video. Maybe he is a tenor, in that case singing well might prove it. 

[Death Con 3]

Nov 10, 2024 5:51:24 GMT Steingrim said:

Nov 10, 2024 5:11:41 GMT kaji said:

That is still a form of classification. Even in lessons, the teacher essentially makes an assumption. Very few of them measure your voice on an spectral analysis software to track the acoustic events.

Just because I mentioned that C-F is a low tenor doesn't mean that he is that. He doesn't sound like an obvious high singer, but he did reach a C5 in the video. Maybe he is a tenor, in that case singing well might prove it. 

Is this a better clip?

[Death Con 3]

Nov 9, 2024 18:59:54 GMT kaji said:

Unless you sing opera, this is not very useful for you to classify your passaggi. Moreover classifying your passaggi without knowing how to cover (classical technique) is unlikely to be accurate.

Why do I need to use a classical technique to get an accurate passaggio? It is said that Steve Perry had a first passaggio at F#4 and second at B4 when he was younger.

[Steingrim]

Nov 13, 2024 3:26:38 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Nov 10, 2024 5:51:24 GMT Steingrim said:

Just because I mentioned that C-F is a low tenor doesn't mean that he is that. He doesn't sound like an obvious high singer, but he did reach a C5 in the video. Maybe he is a tenor, in that case singing well might prove it. 

Is this a better clip?

Don't go any further than that, you are likely to hurt your voice. You're straining a bit at G4 and the G#4 is off pitch. Training songs that stay in octave 4 shouldn't be a problem.

[kaji]

Nov 13, 2024 3:28:20 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Nov 9, 2024 18:59:54 GMT kaji said:

Unless you sing opera, this is not very useful for you to classify your passaggi. Moreover classifying your passaggi without knowing how to cover (classical technique) is unlikely to be accurate.

Why do I need to use a classical technique to get an accurate passaggio? It is said that Steve Perry had a first passaggio at F#4 and second at B4 when he was younger.

Said by who? A random person on the Internet or his teacher?

[Death Con 3]

Nov 13, 2024 8:29:46 GMT Steingrim said:

Nov 13, 2024 3:26:38 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Is this a better clip?

Don't go any further than that, you are likely to hurt your voice. You're straining a bit at G4 and the G#4 is off pitch. Training songs that stay in octave 4 shouldn't be a problem.

Does that mean that the G4 is my second passaggio and thus the D4 is my first passaggio? I'm glad that I could get up to the F5 without flipping into M2, and I bet I could even go a few steps higher but yes, I stopped because I didn't want to hurt my voice.

[Death Con 3]

Nov 13, 2024 14:12:31 GMT kaji said:

Nov 13, 2024 3:28:20 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Why do I need to use a classical technique to get an accurate passaggio? It is said that Steve Perry had a first passaggio at F#4 and second at B4 when he was younger.

Said by who? A random person on the Internet or his teacher?

A person on the Internet

[Steingrim]

Nov 13, 2024 16:43:31 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Nov 13, 2024 8:29:46 GMT Steingrim said:

Don't go any further than that, you are likely to hurt your voice. You're straining a bit at G4 and the G#4 is off pitch. Training songs that stay in octave 4 shouldn't be a problem.

Does that mean that the G4 is my second passaggio and thus the D4 is my first passaggio? I'm glad that I could get up to the F5 without flipping into M2, and I bet I could even go a few steps higher but yes, I stopped because I didn't want to hurt my voice.

It doesn't mean that, it just means that your notes are somewhat strained starting from that G4 and up to where you touch on a slightly sharp E5. I can get a fairly unstrained C#5 in a scale, good enough to be approved by my mezzo jazz singer friend at least. Singing a song that high is different, my comfort zone is more like up to an occasional B4. 
Instead of hurting your voice by going for notes that Steve Perry was still capable of singing well, you should focus on learning to sing better in a range that is more normal for a tenor. There are a zillion songs that stay within C3-G4 or C3-A4, for instance.

[Death Con 3]

Nov 13, 2024 18:08:41 GMT Steingrim said:

Nov 13, 2024 16:43:31 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Does that mean that the G4 is my second passaggio and thus the D4 is my first passaggio? I'm glad that I could get up to the F5 without flipping into M2, and I bet I could even go a few steps higher but yes, I stopped because I didn't want to hurt my voice.

It doesn't mean that, it just means that your notes are somewhat strained starting from that G4 and up to where you touch on a slightly sharp E5. I can get a fairly unstrained C#5 in a scale, good enough to be approved by my mezzo jazz singer friend at least. Singing a song that high is different, my comfort zone is more like up to an occasional B4. 
Instead of hurting your voice by going for notes that Steve Perry was still capable of singing well, you should focus on learning to sing better in a range that is more normal for a tenor. There are a zillion songs that stay within C3-G4 or C3-A4, for instance.

Yes, and I wouldn't want to cover a song that had a lot of E5s because my voice would get tired, but I can get at least up to a G5 in M1 in scales, and I don't want to just not use my top octave at all. The most exciting notes for men to sing are in the fifth octave. I don't think straining is a big deal as long as I do it in moderation.

[Steingrim]

Nov 14, 2024 3:12:52 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Nov 13, 2024 18:08:41 GMT Steingrim said:

It doesn't mean that, it just means that your notes are somewhat strained starting from that G4 and up to where you touch on a slightly sharp E5. I can get a fairly unstrained C#5 in a scale, good enough to be approved by my mezzo jazz singer friend at least. Singing a song that high is different, my comfort zone is more like up to an occasional B4. 
Instead of hurting your voice by going for notes that Steve Perry was still capable of singing well, you should focus on learning to sing better in a range that is more normal for a tenor. There are a zillion songs that stay within C3-G4 or C3-A4, for instance.

Yes, and I wouldn't want to cover a song that had a lot of E5s because my voice would get tired, but I can get at least up to a G5 in M1 in scales, and I don't want to just not use my top octave at all. The most exciting notes for men to sing are in the fifth octave. I don't think straining is a big deal as long as I do it in moderation.

Most tenors can get an E5 in modal voice and like yours and mine it's not necessarily that pretty. Back when I didn't really know what I was doing, I got up to a sustained, slightly sharp F5. I was lucky not to hurt myself, and just doing that one note tired my voice. The sound was butt ugly. As a general rule of the thumb one needs to get at least four semitones in from the max before one can find a note that is useful for singing, and even that note shouldn't be used a lot. 
This rule may not apply for most female singers and the lowest basses. Glenn Miller performs an F#1 and probably cannot get any lower than F1. My mezzo jazz singer friend has a comfortable Eb5, a decent F5 and cannot reach a G#5. Which may be similar to an extremely high tenor like Steve Perry. 
What note will be useful for singing for you, is difficult to tell. Nothing above G4 in those scales was particularly nice. One might assume that potentially, singing for instance a C5 should be no problem. Unless you want that top half to two thirds of an octave to be miserable, you have to focus on what goes on at the bottom of it, first. Strain is never a good thing. Grit and distortion is something else.
And remember, a lot of fifth octave notes sung by male singers are in fact M2 mixed voice. Which is not what this thread is about. 

[Hennessy Macklemore III]

Your passagio is located at 41°15'22.0" N and 74°21'31.7" W. I hope this helps.

[VocalDudeGuy]

Nov 14, 2024 16:21:24 GMT Hennessy Macklemore III said:

Your passagio is located at 41°15'22.0" N and 74°21'31.7" W. I hope this helps.

Basically this puts you around middle blue on the vocal compass. You're welcome

[Yojojo]

Nov 14, 2024 23:47:47 GMT VocalDudeGuy said:

Nov 14, 2024 16:21:24 GMT Hennessy Macklemore III said:

Your passagio is located at 41°15'22.0" N and 74°21'31.7" W. I hope this helps.

Basically this puts you around middle blue on the vocal compass. You're welcome

What the fuck is the vocal compass

[Steingrim]

Nov 15, 2024 1:42:19 GMT Yojojo said:

Nov 14, 2024 23:47:47 GMT VocalDudeGuy said:

Basically this puts you around middle blue on the vocal compass. You're welcome

What the fuck is the vocal compass

It's that magnetic thing that God put inside your head so that you would focus on the sensible part of your range instead of heading for octave 5 heaven to meet up with Steve Perry. 

You might end up as a very raspy version of Darth Vader if you go there, and the movie audience will not be pleased.

May the Force be with you

[kaji]

Nov 13, 2024 16:44:17 GMT Death Con 3 said:

Nov 13, 2024 14:12:31 GMT kaji said:

Said by who? A random person on the Internet or his teacher?

A person on the Internet

Then it’s nonsense. Especially since this is far too high for his voice. Unless they were claiming Steve was a soprano…? Which is hiladious.

[Steingrim]

Nov 16, 2024 14:29:14 GMT kaji said:

Nov 13, 2024 16:44:17 GMT Death Con 3 said:

A person on the Internet

Then it’s nonsense. Especially since this is far too high for his voice. Unless they were claiming Steve was a soprano…? Which is hiladious.

I've read Bb, but it's probably more like A, I'd guess. He certainly had some very nice Eb5s in that live clip that you linked in his thread. Maybe even rivalling the ones that my mezzo friend sings rather easily.