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Post by Yojojo on May 3, 2024 17:06:40 GMT
I got in contact with his estate, but I got ok'd so I never spoke to him again  For a man of God, that is a pretty egregious sin. You know what, leave it as is. He hasn't earned that D3-D4. If you "k" somebody then you don't deserve more than one octave on your thresholds. |
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Post by CT on May 3, 2024 17:19:33 GMT
I got in contact with his estate, but I got ok'd so I never spoke to him again charge they phone |
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Post by Homelander on May 3, 2024 18:26:02 GMT
^ agreed and I don't think anyone is bullying you to change it. We have a shared interest in creating the best information and following the best set of conventions, and we agree that the E3 and C4 sections are not significant enough information to be worth bogging the thread. It's a productive argument, imo, nobody is attacking you, and people have given very reasonable explanations for their criticisms. Of course there's nothing stopping you from keeping it how it is, but I don't think it's fair to write off all of our criticism as bullying. (And I also don't think saying "I've notewatched his whole discography and this is how I feel" is fair. Quantity of notewatching doesn't necessarily equate to quality of notewatching.) For what it's worth, this is a really high quality thread and I appreciate that you made it, but that's my take on the threshold discussion. It just felt like everyone was acting like they knew better than me, especially people who are not clearly fans of his music like I am, so I just dug my heels in and refused to compromise. Anyone who knows me will know that I get very emotionally attached to my singers and I can be stubborn at times. Despite that, I actually do have a reason for the E3 - C4 thresholds: Before he adopted the Father John Misty moniker, he released quite a few albums under the name of J. Tillman. During that time, he was basically like a Nick Drake-kind of singer. In other words, he didn't go above C4/C♯4 or below E3/E♭3 on many of the songs from that period. Going by just his Father John Misty stuff, I totally agree that D3 and D4 would be fine. However, cutting the thresholds down to that would leave out a large portion of his discography from the thread, which I think is unfair to the music released during that time and underrepresents how he used his voice back then. That being said, I see your guys' point of view on this, but I think the thresholds are reasonable where they are. Move it to the finished section or don't, I don't really care. I'm not interested in debating this any further. Anyone who has listened to his earlier work in-depth will know why the thresholds are where they are. That's my two cents on the issue; take it as you will. |
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Post by Bink on May 4, 2024 0:06:15 GMT
Right so I’ll contribute my last bit of information to this argument. And why I think it should still be D3/D4 despite all this information. As opposed to quite a lot of things here I do actually know quite a bit about Father John Misty, as believe it or not, I actually knew about him quite well even when he was just going under the name J. Tillman. I can understand why considering Tillman, there isn’t a lot of range to go around at first glance. However, keep in mind with Tillman, he still spans a perfectly decent amount of range on those albums, and not every single high or low note HAS to be counted in the thread. And like it’s seen here, FJM has no albums where he tops out at less than D4, and all of his albums he goes C3 or lower.
Secondly you mentioned the argument of Nick Drake, and man if I know any musician ever I know him. Personally I think this argument is a little bit misguided in the work of J. Tillman. One, Nick only had three albums, one of which he never went above C4 and his entire thread doesn’t go above F#4, even including demo tapes. Second, Nick is CONSIDERABLY lower place than Tillman, I usually don’t like to bring this up too much, but Nick Drake while he had a whispery voice, was actually quite a deep voiced baritone when applied right, whereas Tillman is quite a clear tenor despite him not using alot of range. Expanding upon this, even if you did include the Nick Drake argument, Nick’s thresholds aren’t even that close together! C3/B3 as opposed to E3/C4 (and tbh I’ve been debating to remove the B3 section for him for a while now). Also, unlike Nick, Tillman makes HEAVY use of falsetto, whereas Nick does not.
But if we’re going to talk about Tillman and thresholds close together. What about most country and folk singers whom I know use even less range than Tillman on that project. A singer like Dwight Yoakam, who outside of a few fifth octave howls, never went above G4, what’s he at? D3/D4. George Strait is the same, and a multitude of other not just country and folk singers but SINGERS in general. Hell even fucking Layne Staley, who had an event every single time he went above Bb4, is at G#4. I went a little bit off track there but you get my point. Just because a lot of artists have not extremely range-y projects, does not mean that they need thresholds that close.
Lastly, and I may come off as a little standoffish here, but no one is trying to act like we know more than you. Almost everyone that has joined in on this argument has said he should be at D3/D4 and you have refused to listen to quite literally everybody. We are not bullying you into changing them but we have tried to tell you multiple times that there is no reason that these thresholds should be this close together and you haven’t listened to any of it. I understand that I in particular can come off as quite blunt and all over the place in terms of my communication style which yes I do admit is something I have to work on (I will not be sharing details at the moment as it’s quite a personal thing for me of what’s happening here) but do understand we’re not trying to antagonize you, its just when sometimes it seems like you’re just doing this to be a contrarian, as I’ve seen with other past interactions, too.
I hope that some of this gets through, I’ve spent too long on this, salutations, this is my much more than 2 cents.
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Anacrusis
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Post by Anacrusis on May 4, 2024 0:47:03 GMT
I was curious and checked out his albums as J. Tillman, and I just wanna add my 2 cents real quick... Although these albums are indeed very whispery/range-conservative, I think it's more accurate to say that these songs are simply mid-range-oriented than it would be to say that most of the peaks in these melodies are "Significant highs" for the singer. Because, as evidenced by his bold C4/C#4's, even when he started singing more forcefully as Father John Misty, his approach to these notes are still clearly quite effortless. The bold C/C#'s, of course, are tasteful and well-sustained. But I would still consider them mid-range, as in the boldable mid-range thread for instance. While I respect OP's opinion, I'd cast my vote for D3/D4, having heard more of the singer's work now. That way, it's still range-conservative (considering most singers have thresholds placed even further apart), but the notes in these categories are a better representation of his true high/low range as a performer. Edit: And the same goes for his lows. He doesn't seem to be pushing down for anything above D3, and even as J. Tillman, I'd say he went below Eb often enough to justify starting at D3. |
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Post by Seb on May 4, 2024 5:52:29 GMT
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BAZanine
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Post by BAZanine on May 6, 2024 0:42:12 GMT
Guys guys I know we're arguing about thresholds at the moment, but can we talk about how that D2 and E2 are clearly just fried D3 and E3? Bringing up the real shit right here. (Homelander I wasn't being sarcastic those notes are very much 3rd octave) |
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Post by Homelander on May 6, 2024 0:58:31 GMT
Bringing up the real shit right here. (Homelander I wasn't being sarcastic those notes are very much 3rd octave) Yeah, I thought so at first too. I'll change them when I get the chance. I really don't want that F2 to be his lowest note either though, lol. |
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Post by Homelander on May 6, 2024 22:16:37 GMT
Guys guys I know we're arguing about thresholds at the moment, but can we talk about how that D2 and E2 are clearly just fried D3 and E3? Fixed. Also got rid of the F2 because it's this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU1roh5edj4&t=340s |
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Post by Goober on May 6, 2024 23:07:28 GMT
because?
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Post by Homelander on May 6, 2024 23:56:44 GMT
It's a pretty unimpressive note, especially when compared to that G2. Looking back, I'm not sure why I counted it in the first place. |
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Post by Macca on May 7, 2024 0:03:59 GMT
Guys guys I know we're arguing about thresholds at the moment, but can we talk about how that D2 and E2 are clearly just fried D3 and E3? Fixed. Also got rid of the F2 because it's this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU1roh5edj4&t=340sThis might just be me, but I think Gilad was just joking. |
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Post by Homelander on May 7, 2024 0:08:37 GMT
This might just be me, but I think Gilad was just joking. Lol, really? Should I change it back then? |
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Post by Macca on May 7, 2024 0:10:34 GMT
This might just be me, but I think Gilad was just joking. Lol, really? Should I change it back then? Well I don't know, we need confirmation before you change anything. |
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Post by Homelander on May 7, 2024 0:13:00 GMT
Lol, really? Should I change it back then? Well I don't know, we need confirmation before you change anything. Yeah. BAZanine seems to think they're third octave (and admittedly I did too when I first heard them). However, I'll wait for some more opinions on this one before re-adding them. |
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Post by PerhapsXarb on May 7, 2024 0:18:23 GMT
They are definitely 3rd octave to me, Gilad and BAZanine were not joking, I noticed it beforehand. And the F2 should be counted, maybe non-melodic, but there is no reason it should be ignored just because the G2 is better
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Post by Homelander on May 7, 2024 0:25:19 GMT
To be clear: not joking. Those are 100% third octave notes Yeah, they're out of the thread now. That E3 still makes a nice bold though. :) |
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