Female vocalists singing in the 2nd octave or below (6,550 views)

[huzaifa96]

Jun 8, 2023 9:54:08 GMT kaji said:

Jun 8, 2023 9:36:36 GMT huzaifa96 said:

Should be obvious but what's so bad about them?

Zero vocal fold closure on any of them, depressing of the larynx and also quite nasal. Just, not very good all around. Ironically the only healthy part of the performance are the belts, which is not the usual for Mariah. 

Thought so but I was surprised to see her do them so badly. I've heard Mariah is legendary. overrated?

[fountain30]

Seinabo Sey can deliver in the G#2-B2 range with ease, check out her thread I made!

[Steingrim]

Zarah Leander, some times referred to as "the female baritone".

Here she's singing Yesterday extremely low, at the age of 65.



There's some F2s in the song "Yester-DAY" and a muddy D2 at 0:47

[kaji]

Yep, she can sing quite low because of her smoking. I'm notewatching her. She was initially a quite high mezzo-soprano but her voice has lowered dramatically over the years.

[Steingrim]

Jun 28, 2023 0:20:38 GMT kaji said:

Yep, she can sing quite low because of her smoking. I'm notewatching her. She was initially a quite high mezzo-soprano but her voice has lowered dramatically over the years.

Not sure how high she was. This clip is from 1938, and she was 31 years old. She's singing D#3s very easily throughout, with a powerful ending :

youtu.be/0zDL4j9haQ0?t=42

Even back then she had that bass core in her low notes that is typical of an alto. My lowish mezzo-soprano friend can sing that note without problems, but it doesn't have that quality to it.

Maybe her head voice was placed high, like Ivan Rebroff ?

[kaji]

Jun 28, 2023 8:48:45 GMT Steingrim said:

Jun 28, 2023 0:20:38 GMT kaji said:

Yep, she can sing quite low because of her smoking. I'm notewatching her. She was initially a quite high mezzo-soprano but her voice has lowered dramatically over the years.

Not sure how high she was. This clip is from 1938, and she was 31 years old. She's singing D#3s very easily throughout, with a powerful ending :

youtu.be/0zDL4j9haQ0?t=42

Even back then she had that bass core in her low notes that is typical of an alto. My lowish mezzo-soprano friend can sing that note without problems, but it doesn't have that quality to it.

Maybe her head voice was placed high, like Ivan Rebroff ?

I think you underestimate just how big of a smoker she was, even then. 

This shows her more natural timbre, still affected by smoking - www.youtube.com/watch?v=imvDoeY7vEg 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWuDlyJyCq4 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QPZOFNyq_E

Here's a quite poetic quote I found from her about it actually:
"I witnessed a transformative shift in my voice, as the lingering presence of smoke gently lowered its range. From the vibrant heights of a mezzo-soprano, it found solace in the rich depths of an alto. This evolution, influenced by the choices I made, serves as a testament to the power of life's experiences. In each hushed breath and resounding note, my voice carries the essence of a journey shaped by its smoky embrace."

I couldn't find the original one in Swedish though, so I wouldn't be shocked if the translator made it a bit more musical lmao. I got this from under one of her videos a while back. 

[Steingrim]

The first video is from the same year as the video that I linked, and I still think that she sounds like an alto - or genuinely lowed placed mezzo. She may have been a somewhat pushed up singer, obviously being capable of singing average placed songs in their original key when required to.

Besides, someone going from high mezzo to ridiculously low contralto (F2 = no problemo) would be going for something like the world record, wouldn't it ? Even for life long chain smokers..

[kaji]

Jun 28, 2023 12:55:44 GMT Steingrim said:

The first video is from the same year as the video that I linked, and I still think that she sounds like an alto - or genuinely lowed placed mezzo. She may have been a somewhat pushed up singer, obviously being capable of singing average placed songs in their original key when required to.

Besides, someone going from high mezzo to ridiculously low contralto (F2 = no problemo) would be going for something like the world record, wouldn't it ? Even for life long chain smokers..

Nina Hagen going from a genuine dramatic soprano (trained) to a contralto is a bigger change. 

[Steingrim]

Jun 28, 2023 13:04:07 GMT kaji said:

Jun 28, 2023 12:55:44 GMT Steingrim said:

The first video is from the same year as the video that I linked, and I still think that she sounds like an alto - or genuinely lowed placed mezzo. She may have been a somewhat pushed up singer, obviously being capable of singing average placed songs in their original key when required to.

Besides, someone going from high mezzo to ridiculously low contralto (F2 = no problemo) would be going for something like the world record, wouldn't it ? Even for life long chain smokers..

Nina Hagen going from a genuine dramatic soprano (trained) to a contralto is a bigger change. 

She's into fry notes, I'm not so sure how genuinely low her voice is.

[kaji]

Jun 28, 2023 13:07:39 GMT Steingrim said:

Jun 28, 2023 13:04:07 GMT kaji said:

Nina Hagen going from a genuine dramatic soprano (trained) to a contralto is a bigger change. 

She's into fry notes, I'm not so sure how genuinely low her voice is.

1985 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEvhmFjPimM&t=101s
1992 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCfms6C0zNQ&t=172s
2000 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N8cQsYdBzU&t=141s 
2004 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=hETw3-OMUHo
2022 - youtu.be/_vKDiyo178E?t=140

Not sure when this clip was but shows her larynx modification and more classical-ish head voice www.youtube.com/watch?v=lagkoVUVPhc&t=107s

[Steingrim]

The clip from 1985 and the clip from 2000 are the exact same concert, with the same drummer looking exactly the same.

I agree that her voice seems to have lowered somewhat from 1985 to the clip from 2004, apart from the distortion in the latter clip.
The clip from 2022 doesn't tell me anything, except that she is extremely good at churning out low fry notes. What is the lowest chest note that you can find from her ? 

In the following vocal range video I found a chest Bb2 : youtu.be/eCv2OWsVS2U?t=275 And then a C3 at about 5:10.
Which suggests that her voice has lowered to something like a low mezzo. But then - what was her chest voice capable of in the 80s ?

Which brings up the following question. How does one classify the voices of Ivan Rebroff's female counterparts ? Let's say that someone can sing a reasonable A2 in chest voice and then an F6 in head voice, what voice type would that be ? I'm under the impression that males are classified according to chest voice placement but females are as likely to be classified according to head voice placement. The example above is likely to be quite capable of keeping up with a soprano's expected range, switching registers as high as C5 and then singing a decent C6 shouldn't be a problem for most.

['S]

Fwiw as regards mezzoish gals whose voices lowered significantly with age and smokes, my previous post in this thread with some of Alla Pugacheva's D2s is another example. Maybe it isn't that rare. Her lowest notes are more on the fuller side than properly toneless croaks as well.

Another D2 here:

[Steingrim]

Jun 28, 2023 16:39:38 GMT 'S said:

Fwiw as regards mezzoish gals whose voices lowered significantly with age and smokes, my previous post in this thread with some of Alla Pugacheva's D2s is another example. Maybe it isn't that rare. Her lowest notes are more on the fuller side than properly toneless croaks as well.

Another D2 here:

That's a fry note with very noticeable rattle. It's low of course, but it doesn't say much about placement or voice type.

Here's a female singing in chest voice down to a muddy Eb2. That's a real contralto. As you probably know, since you made the thread on her.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-nTTf8CI34&t=110s

[kaji]

Singing very low notes, even in chest doesn't necessarily say much about voice type though. Range is very much a skill. Toni Scruggs can sustain a clean E2 in chest, as a soprano. And she can also sustain a line on a high B in belt. Range is range. And I would not call Nina's notes below C3 'fry'. Having some creak does not make it M0. Nina's lowest M1 note to my knowledge is around E2 or F2. Her sustained (bolded) F-sharp is definitely still chest.

[Steingrim]

None of those notes, either the "clean E2" or the "bolded F#2" sound like chest to me. Toni Scruggs does sound like she's still in chest voice at about A2, maybe a bit lower.

[kaji]

Jun 29, 2023 20:39:34 GMT Steingrim said:

None of those notes, either the "clean E2" or the "bolded F#2" sound like chest to me. Toni Scruggs does sound like she's still in chest voice at about A2, maybe a bit lower.

Where did you hear the E2? It's a note she shared in DMs on Instagram. And unless I sent it to you, unlikely you heard it. 

[Steingrim]

Jun 29, 2023 20:55:41 GMT kaji said:

Jun 29, 2023 20:39:34 GMT Steingrim said:

None of those notes, either the "clean E2" or the "bolded F#2" sound like chest to me. Toni Scruggs does sound like she's still in chest voice at about A2, maybe a bit lower.

Where did you hear the E2? It's a note she shared in DMs on Instagram. And unless I sent it to you, unlikely you heard it. 

I found one by searching for her name and E2 on youtube

[kaji]

Jun 29, 2023 20:57:19 GMT Steingrim said:

Jun 29, 2023 20:55:41 GMT kaji said:

Where did you hear the E2? It's a note she shared in DMs on Instagram. And unless I sent it to you, unlikely you heard it. 

I found one by searching for her name and E2 on youtube

That's not the one. This is - cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/624734667081383940/966783176913616946/20210512_190702978_5.mp3

[Steingrim]

Jun 29, 2023 21:40:38 GMT kaji said:

Jun 29, 2023 20:57:19 GMT Steingrim said:

I found one by searching for her name and E2 on youtube

That's not the one. This is - cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/624734667081383940/966783176913616946/20210512_190702978_5.mp3

She has an eerily low speaking voice, it reminds me of Geoff Castellucci's. That's a fairly soft hum, my E2 sounds very different when I project it properly. Her E2 is better than Roy Orbison's E2 though.

[kaji]

Jun 30, 2023 8:38:30 GMT Steingrim said:

Jun 29, 2023 21:40:38 GMT kaji said:

That's not the one. This is - cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/624734667081383940/966783176913616946/20210512_190702978_5.mp3

She has an eerily low speaking voice, it reminds me of Geoff Castellucci's. That's a fairly soft hum, my E2 sounds very different when I project it properly. Her E2 is better than Roy Orbison's E2 though.

It’s a morning speaking voice. She does get quite a few habits from Lalah Hathaway after singing with her for a long time, though. Same with Chaka actually. I see her as a mix of those two voices.

[Steingrim]

Jun 30, 2023 10:35:52 GMT kaji said:

Jun 30, 2023 8:38:30 GMT Steingrim said:

She has an eerily low speaking voice, it reminds me of Geoff Castellucci's. That's a fairly soft hum, my E2 sounds very different when I project it properly. Her E2 is better than Roy Orbison's E2 though.

It’s a morning speaking voice. She does get quite a few habits from Lalah Hathaway after singing with her for a long time, though. Same with Chaka actually. I see her as a mix of those two voices.

What I meant is that there is a bass core somewhere in her voice, even though its general timbre is higher up. Geoff Castellucci is a low baritone with a decent enough unprocessed Bb1 and he can hum an F#1 (see his latest Hobbit cover). 

[azuler]

Might as well advertise my upcoming Saiga Mitsuki thread with a nice clip of her voice she gets down to a A2 here
vocaroo.com/1igCGYgQFdmp

[IhateMana]

user Steingrim posts some of the worst vocal analysis of Nina Hagen ever seen, asked to leave TRP4

[Steingrim]

Jul 2, 2023 23:40:02 GMT IhateMana said:

user Steingrim posts some of the worst vocal analysis of Nina Hagen ever seen, asked to leave TRP4

Well thank you very much.

[kaji]

Jun 28, 2023 13:36:53 GMT Steingrim said:

The clip from 1985 and the clip from 2000 are the exact same concert, with the same drummer looking exactly the same.

I agree that her voice seems to have lowered somewhat from 1985 to the clip from 2004, apart from the distortion in the latter clip.
The clip from 2022 doesn't tell me anything, except that she is extremely good at churning out low fry notes. What is the lowest chest note that you can find from her ? 

In the following vocal range video I found a chest Bb2 : youtu.be/eCv2OWsVS2U?t=275 And then a C3 at about 5:10.
Which suggests that her voice has lowered to something like a low mezzo. But then - what was her chest voice capable of in the 80s ?

Which brings up the following question. How does one classify the voices of Ivan Rebroff's female counterparts ? Let's say that someone can sing a reasonable A2 in chest voice and then an F6 in head voice, what voice type would that be ? I'm under the impression that males are classified according to chest voice placement but females are as likely to be classified according to head voice placement. The example above is likely to be quite capable of keeping up with a soprano's expected range, switching registers as high as C5 and then singing a decent C6 shouldn't be a problem for most.

The answer is the same for both. The singer is not to be classified by the notes they can hit but by the overall tessitura (given the CONTEXT) and the density of the instrument. Paul Robeson is a bass not because he sings a lot around the second octave and can sing down to a low C. He is one because the centre of the voice lies in the bass tessitura in the coordination he is singing. Different voice types will have different 'zones' given the approach and style and genre. It's a quite complex topic and one that is easily confused. 

This is still a lower mezzo-soprano despite singing in belt and mixed voice around the upper fifth octave comfortably - www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfHUNU7Qaaw&t=53s 
This is still a higher soprano (albeit mature) despite the comfortable low third octave - youtu.be/-VDPcS5XVCM?t=30
This is still a contralto despite singing comfortably above the primo and secondo (chest) passagio all the time - www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ogF_gtJLzM
Samara Joy is still a PURE soprano (meaning both the voice type and approach) despite the very rich and mellow timbre - www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2tcOlIehUE This same thing applies for Sarah Vaughan as well (although her voice did actually lowered over the years)
Adam Didur is still a basso-cantante (or a bass-baritone) despite having a comfortable high A4 in covered chest voice (at the end) - www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNiVnptj8j0
Michael Spyres is still a tenor despite having a fairly usable low C to low F - youtu.be/X5fn_NHoKFE?t=1767 
youtu.be/ScMkcxZlZm0?t=763

Classifying a voice takes time and paying attention to very small things and range is not the thing that you should typically look at first, nor the range they primarily sing in (if that were the case most of early pop singers would be baritones and contraltos).