fella
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Post by fella on Feb 20, 2022 7:30:46 GMT
What makes Cornell a clear baritone isnt even related to his C5s, since even dramatic tenors are not expected to have a chest heavy C5, just a B4, its that when not distorting his tone, he already sheds darkness and sounds brighter at his F#4/G4 area up, with his sound being notably mixed there, which would not be the case with a real tenor. Just listen to his less distorted G4s in the chorus here youtu.be/qpLQv5xL9Dc , he already sheds darkness and there is a notable ressonance shift from his chest to his head, at for exemple "house". Want something even more obvious? Listen to his much cleaner than usual A4s when he sings "LAY" and "WINE" in the bridge there, he has a sudden really massive ressonance shift to his head, he gets very twangy and a bit shrill sounding, a true tenor singing with this amount of glotal pressure and volume at an A4 would simply not have this sudden shift to a headier ressonance. Those A4s in the bridge when he goes higher and sings "LAY" and "WINE" simply scream baritone. And to be honest, you can find other baritones who have chestier cleaner A4s than that, specially at this volume and glotal pressure levels. Those A4s in this specific rendition just settle the case. Compare those to Layne Staleys, he had no notable ressonance shift at all like those up to his B4s/C5s. I honestly cant picture someone listening to this and thinking an actual tenor singing at a loud volume would have such a significant ressonance shift at a simple G4 at the "-PA-tiently", you can really hear him shifting back from the mix to his chest as he goes down from "PA" to "tiently". Not shifting ressonance at a loud volume going to a G4 and then back to a E4 would be an absolute piece of cake for any experienced tenor singer. Listen to this baritone singer doing some not as belted A4s at the chorus of this song youtu.be/xAcQyUHapcg , do you hear how his ressonance shift is much more subtle than Cornells at that like a stone bridge, and how he keeps a darker sound? His tone barely changes in color even at such sudden pitch shift from D4 to A4. So even for high baritone standarts he wouldnt have such a particularly high placed chest tessitura, he just is really good at making his mixed mid fourth octave and up notes sounding chestier than they are, but when he cleans up a bit his sound like in the bridge part of the first link it become more blatant. There is a reason experienced good coaches like Ken Tamplin consider him a baritone. Heck, even my G#4 here at the beggining voca.ro/1d8x4R3XbiH7 doesnt have the slightest hint of mixing, while he is already displaying head ressonance before this, despite being a far more matured singer by then. |
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fedemayhemile
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Post by fedemayhemile on Feb 20, 2022 21:11:16 GMT
Whatever your subjetivity wants you to think man, lie to yourself, the only closed fact is that we can never 100% know because we'd need to have real opera teachers judge his voice, they are the only people that can objectively conclude this, and you are not gaining anything by stating a singer's voice type when you're not using impartial logical and probabilistical analysis of the evidence to do so, it's not gonna make you suddenly able to sing songs with their comfort/skill, you have to work on that yourself, there's no use, he just had a practical enduring technique, because singing of pure chest in those highest areas during whole concerts takes a lot of energy and makes it harder to start mixing the higher notes, btw, i've heard Ken Tamplin say Dimash is a baritone because of couple of good low notes, a cosmical nonsense, he only wants to sell you his course at any cost, so, he's not a very trustworthy person, cheers.
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halloweenjack95
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Post by halloweenjack95 on Feb 21, 2022 5:51:12 GMT
Yeah, i meant to say a Baryton-Martin not a Verdi, i confused the names, my bad there, if you know of any confirmed baritone that can sing a heavy comfortable C5 link it please, check out this version of Wide Awake ( Chris Cornell - Teatro Gran Rex), i don't hear any distortion whatsoever there and he indeed sounds "thinner" in that one, btw, if you hear a TON of distortion or far from clean in the two previous examples, you are either deaf or in denial, it's a slight layer to make it sound more emotional. I actually listened to this version again. And I also can't hear much distortion.. And since it was claimed his voice was already fading away during Audioslaves debut because of some bad performances (which can be explained) Heres a good version of "Show me": youtu.be/H9bvAP_DIeI |
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fella
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Post by fella on Feb 21, 2022 6:32:10 GMT
Whatever your subjetivity wants you to think man, lie to yourself, the only closed fact is that we can never 100% know because we'd need to have real opera teachers judge his voice, they are the only people that can objectively conclude this, and you are not gaining anything by stating a singer's voice type when you're not using impartial logical and probabilistical analysis of the evidence to do so, it's not gonna make you suddenly able to sing songs with their comfort/skill, you have to work on that yourself, there's no use, he just had a practical enduring technique, because singing of pure chest in those highest areas during whole concerts takes a lot of energy and makes it harder to start mixing the higher notes, btw, i've heard Ken Tamplin say Dimash is a baritone because of couple of good low notes, a cosmical nonsense, he only wants to sell you his course at any cost, so, he's not a very trustworthy person, cheers. You have no clue of what impartiality or probalistical analysis means, you use those words to feel like you are making big intelectual remarks, while all you did till now was using superficial, basic level logics. The fact that you think that I believe debating this will make me sing better and replace hard work is laughable, hard work is what I have been doing daily for years. I dont need to debate anything to sing it with more or less skill, I literally have a Soundgarden-Audioslave cover band and sing two hours straight of their repertoire without hurting myself for days in a row, so just keep talking about stuff you actually have evidence of instead of fantasizing. The fact you started to get passive-agressive and tried to get personal over such a trivial subject means you need to grow a pair of balls asap. |
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Post by fella on Feb 21, 2022 6:49:45 GMT
Yeah, i meant to say a Baryton-Martin not a Verdi, i confused the names, my bad there, if you know of any confirmed baritone that can sing a heavy comfortable C5 link it please, check out this version of Wide Awake ( Chris Cornell - Teatro Gran Rex), i don't hear any distortion whatsoever there and he indeed sounds "thinner" in that one, btw, if you hear a TON of distortion or far from clean in the two previous examples, you are either deaf or in denial, it's a slight layer to make it sound more emotional. I actually listened to this version again. And I also can't hear much distortion.. And since it was claimed his voice was already fading away during Audioslaves debut because of some bad performances (which can be explained) Heres a good version of "Show me": youtu.be/H9bvAP_DIeIHis voice was in a pretty bad shape through most of the Audioslave era, it wasnt a few perfomances. Just look the comments in the video you posted, its a well known fact. He got his voice partially rehabilitated for a good chunk of his solo career, he really sounded better than he did in the early to mid 2000s. He also (wisely) dropped a good portion of his vocal drive usage. But he still sounded not as good there as he did in his first Soundgarden era, although still a very, very impressive singer. |
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halloweenjack95
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Post by halloweenjack95 on Feb 21, 2022 8:08:59 GMT
I actually listened to this version again. And I also can't hear much distortion.. And since it was claimed his voice was already fading away during Audioslaves debut because of some bad performances (which can be explained) Heres a good version of "Show me": youtu.be/H9bvAP_DIeIHis voice was in a pretty bad shape through most of the Audioslave era, it wasnt a few perfomances. Just look the comments in the video you posted, its a well known fact. He got his voice partially rehabilitated for a good chunk of his solo career, he really sounded better than he did in the early to mid 2000s. He also (wisely) dropped a good portion of his vocal drive usage. But he still sounded not as good there as he did in his first Soundgarden era, although still a very, very impressive singer. I NEVER denied that his voice was in Bad shape during Audioslave. He had nodules and his past addiction took its tool on his voice. But he recovered quite well from that. And he deserves credits for this. |
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fedemayhemile
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Post by fedemayhemile on Feb 21, 2022 8:52:58 GMT
fella What? You are being the only irrationally agressive, don't you see? tell me where exactly did i got personal? you just want a bad reaction out of me, you don't know what passive agressive means, those type of people are the one of the biggest problem of this world, that's basically people that don't express themseves in a direct way with literal words because they are basically ignorant cowards and then stab you in the back because they can't consciously control their emotions in general and are really weak, i was with you and i am as straightforward as an arrow in real life, objective facts are not violence and they are necessary to expose in context, people need to understand that, impartiallity is not influencing any emotion or personal convenience in an analysis and conclusion, with that closed defensive attitude you are not gonna go far in any conversation, i just said the "lie to yourself" thing because you are so sure that he is baritone, which is a fact that is completely impossible to know for sure and we, not just me, are showing you that it's probably not the case, i simply don't understand how SO MANY people just like you, even "vocal coaches" state that Chris, Thom Yorke, etc... are this or that without using "basic logic" (which does not seem to be so basic) on how the human voice works, man, i was just using cold logic and showing you the evidence, the videos ARE the only possible evidence, it'd be great to ask Chris directly, but well.. it's literally the most impersonal thing there is, and finally, the "singing better" thing is just directly connected to the theory that it's all based on psychological reinforcement to give lower voices the "example" with a famous successful singer as a motivational figure, like Chris in this case, that it's all worth the efford (it may not be your individual case, though idk), there's other examples for that, like Goeff Tate or the guy from the cover i linked you, which are the evidence that it's completely possible, but not necessarily Chris, he is probably not the right example for that, we're all mad here, cheers.
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fedemayhemile
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Post by fedemayhemile on Feb 22, 2022 0:27:06 GMT
Hah, alright, i know, but quite the contrary though, it's necessary & useful for this to be used here as an explanation of what's already been discussed for the future, you can check yourself that all i said are provable facts, life is not a show, it doesn't need to be entertaining, it was a nice conversation though, that's all, cheers.
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Post by fedemayhemile on Feb 22, 2022 3:42:06 GMT
Henny Macc - Yes, hahah, it's completely possible, people and their excuse of "too much text", but as this is currently THE page about vocal range of the whole internet, the efford was made and if necessary it will continue, it'd be indeed a great idea to quote it every single time so we don't have to repeat the same statements endlessly.
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Brenda
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Post by Brenda on Feb 22, 2022 6:01:18 GMT
Henny Macc - Yes, hahah, it's completely possible, people and their excuse of "too much text", but as this is currently THE page about vocal range of the whole internet, the efford was made and if necessary it will continue, it'd be indeed a great idea to quote it every single time so we don't have to repeat the same statements endlessly. The full turn around from being just now on each other's throats to being like "that was fun 10/10 would do again" lol |
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Post by motorist on Apr 14, 2022 20:54:22 GMT
I'm also hearing A4 and E5 from "Uncle Anesthesia" (RIP to both vocalists now) As for the other songs Cornell has backing vocals on from the album, they don't seem to fit the thresholds. "Alice Said" sounds to me like Cornell's vocals top at G4, but I might be wrong b/c they are faint: youtu.be/ORHWMMh4xQw?t=202"Before We Arise" tops out at D4 I think, right at the start: www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMMQutZLDKgThere's also spoken words from the ending of Heretic, I always get these pitches wrong so I'll just link it: youtu.be/K0z6ATxLk8Q?t=204The No One Sings Like You Anymore, Vol. 1 notes are still absent from this thread, are you going to add those? Also can you link the Soundgarden questionable notes with [2] markings, plus the "Let Me Drown" demo note? Still unresolved questions about those. |
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halloweenjack95
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Post by halloweenjack95 on Apr 15, 2022 16:26:35 GMT
I'm also hearing A4 and E5 from "Uncle Anesthesia" (RIP to both vocalists now) As for the other songs Cornell has backing vocals on from the album, they don't seem to fit the thresholds. "Alice Said" sounds to me like Cornell's vocals top at G4, but I might be wrong b/c they are faint: youtu.be/ORHWMMh4xQw?t=202"Before We Arise" tops out at D4 I think, right at the start: www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMMQutZLDKgThere's also spoken words from the ending of Heretic, I always get these pitches wrong so I'll just link it: youtu.be/K0z6ATxLk8Q?t=204The No One Sings Like You Anymore, Vol. 1 notes are still absent from this thread, are you going to add those? Also can you link the Soundgarden questionable notes with [2] markings, plus the "Let Me Drown" demo note? Still unresolved questions about those. That would be interesting. I cant even remember Chris going that high in the Demo version of "Let me Drown". I just listened to "Euphoria Mourning" today. And tbh I actually think the A5 from "Follow my Way" is Chris singing and not Natasha. I know she did backup vocals on the Album(When I'm down). Kinda tricky. |
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Post by motorist on Apr 23, 2022 5:06:19 GMT
provided that line topping at A5 is the only thing that happens to remotely resemble her voice Now that Natasha's backing vocals have been represented for the point of album credits as proof: I also think that the falsetto portion is Chris Cornell. The vocals during that portion sound like a very similar, but slightly less distorted version of his other falsetto highs (Face Pollution, She Likes Surprises), plus Natasha's singing voice is heavily accented and is really not similar to that at all. It's also significant part of the song's composition and doesn't seem like something he'd give for someone else to sing, when he was capable of doing so himself. I don't suspect it's Natasha singing there even in the slightest, honestly. |
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Post by rebaru on Apr 29, 2022 5:16:58 GMT
It's also significant part of the song's composition and doesn't seem like something he'd give for someone else to sing, Provided 'Follow My Way' was cowritten by Natasha, Alain Johannes and Cornell, I don't see how this necessarily holds up. So long as much as a lingering doubt exists I'll still be reluctant to count it in the actual body of work. It's acknowledged in the thread, in the spoiler, marked under a notable possibility that it may - too - be Natasha Shneider. Same as it's been since posted. That'll have to suffice. |
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Post by motorist on Apr 29, 2022 5:45:02 GMT
All of the lyrics were written by Chris Cornell, so the assumption that he would sing every lead vocal seems like pretty sound logic to me, especially considering that he never gave anyone else lyrics to sing in Soundgarden (with like 2 exceptions throughout their entire 13 year-long career). I get that it's along to the instrumental but it's basically the same melody he does in another part of the song, and Cornell was known to sing very high along to instrumental bits in Soundgarden as well (Power Trip, Loud Love, Tears to Forget intros, She Likes Surprises). Only the music was co-written by Natasha and Alain. I also think it doesn't sound like Natasha at all - she has a distinctive heavy accented voice that is easily recognizable. And that distorted falsetto just sounds obviously like Cornell to me. But do what you want I suppose. Anyway there are other things to address when you have the time: The inclusion of No One Sings Like You Anymore, Vol. 1, the [2] Soundgarden questionable notes, the supposed Let Me Drown B5, the Circle of Power B2 which I always thought was Hiro Yamamoto, "Uncle Anesthesia" notes, and the spoken words from Heretic. Just a reminder, it has been a year since the thread's last update, after all. |
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halloweenjack95
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Post by halloweenjack95 on Apr 30, 2022 8:55:50 GMT
All of the lyrics were written by Chris Cornell, so the assumption that he would sing every lead vocal seems like pretty sound logic to me, especially considering that he never gave anyone else lyrics to sing in Soundgarden (with like 2 exceptions throughout their entire 13 year-long career). I get that it's along to the instrumental but it's basically the same melody he does in another part of the song, and Cornell was known to sing very high along to instrumental bits in Soundgarden as well (Power Trip, Loud Love, Tears to Forget intros, She Likes Surprises). Only the music was co-written by Natasha and Alain. I also think it doesn't sound like Natasha at all - she has a distinctive heavy accented voice that is easily recognizable. And that distorted falsetto just sounds obviously like Cornell to me. But do what you want I suppose. Anyway there are other things to address when you have the time: The inclusion of No One Sings Like You Anymore, Vol. 1, the [2] Soundgarden questionable notes, the supposed Let Me Drown B5, the Circle of Power B2 which I always thought was Hiro Yamamoto, "Uncle Anesthesia" notes, and the spoken words from Heretic. Just a reminder, it has been a year since the thread's last update, after all. Okey good to know I am not the who thinks that A5 is actually Chris lol. But I can understand why its questionable because we cant say this for sure. Natasha is credited as a Backing vocalist on the Album but this particular note sounds like Chris to me.. but What do I know? |
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Post by erik897 on May 8, 2022 21:44:12 GMT
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