Matt Bellamy (60,894 views)

[Discount Roger Taylor]

It definitely sounds pretty different from his normal high notes, but the Survival G#5 did as well, and I think the tone of the falsetto still sounds like it could be Matt. The thing I don't get is how he could struggle so greatly with basically all the high falsetto parts on tour (the KOBK D5 sounds pretty strained even in the studio), and yet somehow nail an incredibly clear and powerful G#5 on the album, which is a note he only attempted a few times even at his peak. I know there's often going to be a large gap between live and studio singing, but that seems like an unusually large one.

Not to mention, all his other >F5 studio notes from the past few years have been either very faint, heavily produced, or very strained (or all three).

--------------------------------------------------
Just saw the edit to your post literally right after I posted this. Oh well, the album is still great vocally even if the G#5 isn't real. Maybe it could still go in the spoiler, though

[jaredletoisbackagain]

Aug 25, 2022 20:44:07 GMT aphelion said:

i heard the note loads of times but i’m still on the fence as to whether it’s a synth or not. if it’s vocals then it’s very impressive

update: it’s a synth unfortunately

What new knowledge did you gain before making that edit? Still sounds like a voice to me.

[Discount Roger Taylor]

I'm guessing he means it's a sampled voice, the same way a lot of synths have, say, sampled string sounds

[jaredletoisbackagain]

Aug 28, 2022 23:04:31 GMT Discount Roger Taylor said:

I'm guessing he means it's a sampled voice, the same way a lot of synths have, say, sampled string sounds

nah he thinks it's a synth

[1999]

As a massive Muse fan I can't help but cringe a little (actually a lot) when listening to the album.
Solid vocal performances tho

[Gilad]

Just listened to Halloween. That G#5 is legit imo. If you slow it down you can hear slight imperfections in the vibrato which leads me to believe it's Matt's voice

[EddieCheivz]

Honestly with this album Muse has lost my interest on them, totally.

It's like they have found a magic formula and all songs are the same over and over. Same musical style, same synthesizers, same guitar riffs, same instrumentation, same kind of vocal lines, same pedals, always all the same.

There were some interesting things they implemented on previous albums, as some songs on "The 2nd Law", or "The Resistence" where they forgot for a second their regular musical style to add few changes into at least few songs; as Panic Station, Isolated System, I Belong To You, or The Globalist, but currently it's like they always do some kind of intent to sound in the same way as before but no proposing actually something new, it's really boring to me to hear their new songs, honestly.

Matt: there are more things than make four chords progressions and do a random arpeggio on the keyboard with that, putting a very conservative vocal melody line above with some drums and a random bass accompaniment beyond (thing that really got me dissapointed; Chris always had very good, melodic and counterpointing bass lines and now everything is very simple on his instrument) and some guitar licks here and there.

Sorry Muse but, You are all that now.

[jaredletoisbackagain]

"random arpeggio, conservative vocal melody, some drums and random bass accompaniment" might be the most unspecific criticism of all time. Not to mention that anyone who uses the word "random" in relation to a melody or drumbeat that's has a clear pattern is just outing themselves as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

It's fine to not like the album. But don't try to pass it off as some sort of musical theory issue when you clearly don't have the knowledge for that.

It's also interesting that you would single out The Globalist as Muse going outside their usual style, when the first part re-uses a melody from Unnatural Selection, the middle section is based on a jam they've played for years, and the ending is literally a cover of Nimrod, which Matt has already used as the basis for Soaked.

[aphelion]

Clearly didn’t listen to the bassline in Compliance, Kill Or Be Killed, Euphoria, or WAFF, not to mention the awesome slap bass at the end of Halloween. These songs were all about revisiting styles they have done before while bringing something new. Halloween was a revisiting of the Simulation Theory sound and it’s far more interesting than most of the tracks from that album. Verona is pretty new territory for them. Won’t Stand Down is the first time they’ve delved into a more modern metal sound. There is plenty of new stuff on offer here, and I can understand not liking it, but to say they’ve done it all before is incorrect in my view

[EddieCheivz]

Sept 9, 2022 8:58:39 GMT jaredletoisbackagain said:

"random arpeggio, conservative vocal melody, some drums and random bass accompaniment" might be the most unspecific criticism of all time. Not to mention that anyone who uses the word "random" in relation to a melody or drumbeat that's has a clear pattern is just outing themselves as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

It's fine to not like the album. But don't try to pass it off as some sort of musical theory issue when you clearly don't have the knowledge for that.

It's also interesting that you would single out The Globalist as Muse going outside their usual style, when the first part re-uses a melody from Unnatural Selection, the middle section is based on a jam they've played for years, and the ending is literally a cover of Nimrod, which Matt has already used as the basis for Soaked.

loool do you want to teach me about musical composition or theory? you literally don't explain nothing musically talking in your post. Yeah my criticism was simple in the sense I don't wanted to do an enormous big post here explaining into several paragraphs the central idea, but (as you claim) if you got the enough experience and musical knownledge you could realize that's the essence what I'm talking about.
But if you want a bit more of explanation to unfold my points here you got a bit (a bit, I'm still settling down about I'm not going to do a whole bible here, cause that would be boring for the forum and also the album don't worth for it):

-Random arpeggio.
You can take any random Muse song with a keyboard/piano beyond (very easy to pick one) and most of them (mainly on keyboard) are practically the same: the existing chord progression, with its respective tempo and the amount of notes can fit on, they're distributed without no more "melodic" or "sentimental" intention on it. Just the notes of each chords played travelling around the entire scale, many times even without alterate order on them, and sometimes yeah, alterating the order of the notes, but no in an interesting or newer way to sound. There are other examples of good (or at least better) keyboard/synthesizers arpeggios cause they gamble with other facts; it's still present and intention for doing an actual melody or something, there are some accents, pauses, etc for make a different arpeggio each time. Take a listen next ones for example:

First, non Muse songs (better examples what I'm talking about):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmnqX4iNBpI whole piano lines is a mix into jazz sound, fast scale notes, but melodic and quiet parts as well, good ahrmonies too, as I said different accents here and there, not just same monotonous thing on whole song.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrYbfQRlfwQ&t=2m40s beautiful piano notes/arpeggios that really doubt Matt could compose
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryc8gGfnL5M&t=57s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQaOghBVOKg&t=70s along whole organ solo
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ak396FpNYw entire keyboard arpeggio change on any verse through whole song, thing Muse few times do that good.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pils34Td_wE

Muse songs (not the best piano things ever but at least better than current ones):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCTb7hVPNnw&t=6s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8vuZX5wPig
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bNnekk2_Yk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTDOhoPi7m8&t=17s

Ohh of course and I cannot forget that beautiful synths arpeggios along with that piano accents/harmonies on "Stockholm Syndrome" www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Q0moGbeEo&t=1m19s
I think the synths there are that thing as well about is that amount of notes into the chords, but at least I think here it's correctly good justified by the harmony piano does with them.

Muse keyboards lately doesn't have that at all, as I said, is just put the chord progression and the amount of notes can fit on the tempo for each chord, then they are played there and that's all. Listen to the big difference between previous ones and the nexts:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8muGWOjNoSo
www.youtube.com/watch?v=58TDWQ0fRus
www.youtube.com/watch?v=58TDWQ0fRus&t=54s (lit same song and same melody just with a different synthesizer, they just changed the effect)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPRf58cm-oQ&t=1m26s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCBkH0p8HcQ (It's a piano yeah, and once again is same type of arpeggio always)

-conservative vocal melody
First of all I know there are some exceptions, but many of new songs honestly are very similar into a descending or asceding changes into a melody, take for examples next ones:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHNWEfES6XI&t=18s (I'd say in fact sounds very similar at least on the verses to "Thought Contagion"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5unWmywttM&t=4s and chorus parts are really very similar to any other vocal line from Muse.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCBkH0p8HcQ&t=9s Whole song I'd say qualifies for this.
I don't want to put many instances here cause I think would be no much appreacible what I want to show ok? But I want to show off Muse many times appeal to do a vocal line like this:

-Matt is singing on a mid-placed part of his chest range, then a random higher falsetto note appears here and there. That many times are the verses.

-Vocal lines start to go higher (bit by bit) and just taking advantage same chord progression notes to incrase half tone by half tone, or tone by tone (many times this already on chest voice). Yeah dudes, that's the pre-chorus. (That's why to generate "more intenstiy" those notes are mainly sung on chest voice and not falsetto).

-And you know how chorsuses sound like.

Many Muse songs are that and this is not new, since first albums many songs have this kind of vocal meldoy composition.

Keeping in mind  Muse never has been really "amazing" doing vocal lines (musically talking), but thanks to Matt voice/interpretation they looked good. I know it's not easy to do an original or new vocal line with many existing ones before, but the thing what I'm talking about is there. At least on the past I can remember more songs with some differences, some changes into their vocal lines than now, for example I can say "Falling Away With You" vocal line has more musical accents since Matt are following guitar lines as well. Or for example the amount of going and coming notes from songs as "Muscle Museum" or "Unintended" are some interesnting, I mean the balance of low and high notes through the melody is not sooo trite as others, Currently maybe exist some here and there that could be interesting as well (for example I remember some points from "Haloween") that made me think: "Mmm ok".

-some drums and random bass accompaniment"
Ok about drums I have to recognize I'm not enterely good about that, that's why I just put "some drums" and didn't any judgament on they though. I'm not enoughly experienced to judge actual Dom work so I won't. But about bass accompaniment is basically what the sentence says.

Chris always did very good counterpoint job into Muse songs before, a musical line completely different to the one above (from the guitar, piano, Matt voice, etc). You can hear the piano along bass on "New Born" that's counterpoint! Cause each instrument is doing a completely different melody between themselves. Yeah always existed some parts/riffs where literally same guitar riff is played by Chris just one octave before (lit on New Born too lol) but there were SOME and that's all. I think on that years was good to the point we can justify it because on many verses or instrumental parts though bass part really do (as I said) a completely different accompaniment regarding other musical intruments. There are several instances as "Hysteria", "Muscle Museum", "Uno", "Time is Running Out", not just old songs of course, for example chorus bassline from "The Handler" is really awesome too.

I have to admit I have not listened with toooo much attention new basslines (I'm going to do it aphelion ) but since what I could see with some times listenings the songs at least I can say they are far what they used to be (and this is not new, there are no much counterpointing bass lines on Simulation Theory or Drones either (I know there are some exceptions).


SO...
Ya bro? It's like when in this forum someone says something as: "Yeah that note is shit", "that note really sucks" just to point out is "shit" no matter as countable, and that's the point. And none of us (cause we can understand it) jump to say: "Oh yeah, you lack of vocal knoewnledge to explain", "very poor analysis". But the fact you want a better explanation not catching the idea just shows off your limited vision on musical theory. Just take for instance what happened on Axl Rose thread, when Mana says something like: "The ugliest thing" for labelling a note and what happened right after ;)

To close: you just complaining about final paragraph on my post (what is just a conclsuion, INDEED) to justify I don't have knownledge what I'm talking about, when a "conclusion" is precisaly that; a "conclusion", not an amount of reasons/explanations to proove my point. But yeah you're ignoring all things I said before, that is: (with some exceptions) Muse is always virtually doing the same over and over, yeah obviously maybe more on track to current music, but many components on their songs are been used until satiety point in their repertoire. BTW I said that about "The Globalist" not for contain new material or things, (the riff was played several times yeah, but no as part of a song, same for Psycho) rather it was for the overall composition; to do new things with all that joined, but thanks for the info, never knew about the cover you're talking about, I know probably wasn't best example I could say.


-aphelion  sincerely I cannot see something new on "Verona" is just a ballad (I guess) with same pop sound they showed on previous albums, exactly what's the new? and I think it's some strecht to say "WSD" is within metal sound (modern or not) just for having a fast tempo with same distorted pedals as always, I see your point but to me that's not metal to my ears at all. I hear even more as "metal" other previous songs as "Stockholm Syndrome" for example, and it is not metal either. 
Finally I know ALL on new album isn't bad, but the fact limited changes and evolution on their music is my main reason to think that, probably some songs are good and worth to listening for, but as a long time Muse fan, who has seen their entire musical line I'm now on the point I'm boring to hear them with same emotion as before.

EDITED TO CHANGE SOME POOR EXAMPLES I BRING AND FOR FIX SOME WRTTING MISTAKES I DID :)

[aphelion]

ok

[IhateMana]

i fucking hate muse lmao

[slugger]

To close: you just complaining about final paragraph on my post (what is just a conclsuion, INDEED) to justify I don't have knownledge what I'm talking about, when a "conclusion" is precisaly that; a "conclusion", not an amount of reasons/explanations to proove my point.

[IhateMana]

that's not what he's saying at all but go off C- popular music media studies essay king

[SailorBlue]

compliance got me like

[jaredletoisbackagain]

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

loool do you want to teach me about musical composition or theory?

No I don't. I pointed out that "random bassline" is a meaningless criticism.

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

you literally don't explain nothing musically talking in your post.

Why would I need to? I didn't make any musical statements. I just questioned yours.

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

-Random arpeggio.
You can take any random Muse song with a keyboard/piano beyond (very easy to pick one) and most of them (mainly on keyboard) are practically the same: the existing chord progression, with its respective tempo and the amount of notes can fit on, they're distributed without no more "melodic" or "sentimental" intention on it. Just the notes of each chords played travelling around the entire scale, many times even without alterate order on them, and sometimes yeah, alterating the order of the notes, but no in an interesting or newer way to sound.

So they're doing what they've always done. Sure, this might be the final straw for you...but you mean you were okay for it for Showbiz, Origin of Symmetry, Absolution, Black Holes & Revelations, The Resistance, The 2nd Law, Drones, Simulation Theory...but NOW you're saying "enough"? I mean at this point, arpeggios are just part of Muse's sound.

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

There are other examples of good (or at least better) keyboard/synthesizers arpeggios cause they gamble with other facts; it's still present and intention for doing an actual melody or something, there are some accents, pauses, etc for make a different arpeggio each time. Take a listen next ones for example:

First, non Muse songs (better examples what I'm talking about):

In most of these examples, the arpeggio are played by the main instrument, the one that we're meant to focus on. Matt usually doesn't use them like that (with notable exceptions like Overture, Take A Bow and piano songs). He uses them for flavour and to enrichen the total soundscape with small details. Matt pretty clearly intends for them not to fight for the listeners attention with the other things going on in the song. Or, like in the example of Verona...the whole song is clearly meant to be easy. It's not meant to be challenging or complicated. Not all music is.

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

-conservative vocal melody
First of all I know there are some exceptions, but many of new songs honestly are very similar into a descending or asceding changes into a melody, take for examples next ones:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHNWEfES6XI&t=18s (I'd say in fact sounds very similar at least on the verses to "Thought Contagion"

Yes, it is similar to Thought Contagion...for about 5 seconds until it goes into "give us Euphoria". But anyway, Thought Contagion was pretty uncommon in Muse's discography when it came to that half-rapped verse. Are you really gonna complain because Muse have...TWO songs that utilizes a similar vocal style? What about all the million Muse songs that end on a high falsetto note? Got no problem with that?

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5unWmywttM&t=4s and chorus parts are really very similar to any other vocal line from Muse.

"Any other vocal line", what does this mean? All vocal lines by Matt sound the same? If anything, that melody is a notable exception. It threw loads of fans off the first time because they weren't used to Matt singing that way. But you are welcome to give examples other than "any other vocal line".

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCBkH0p8HcQ&t=9s Whole song I'd say qualifies for this.
I don't want to put many instances here cause I think would be no much appreacible what I want to show ok? But I want to show off Muse many times appeal to do a vocal line like this:

-Matt is singing on a mid-placed part of his chest range, then a random higher falsetto note appears here and there. That many times are the verses.

-Vocal lines start to go higher (bit by bit) and just taking advantage same chord progression notes to incrase half tone by half tone, or tone by tone (many times this already on chest voice). Yeah dudes, that's the pre-chorus. (That's why to generate "more intenstiy" those notes are mainly sung on chest voice and not falsetto).

-And you know how chorsuses sound like.

Many Muse songs are that and this is not new, since first albums many songs have this kind of vocal meldoy composition.

Mate you're just describing standard western songwriting. You're saying that intensity builds up to a chorus and then he uses chest voice instead of falsetto for the big notes on the chorus...because it sounds more powerful and hard-hitting. Yeah, groundbreaking stuff here, you realised that a rock band want big choruses and smaller verses for dynamics.

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

Chris always did very good counterpoint job into Muse songs before, a musical line completely different to the one above (from the guitar, piano, Matt voice, etc). You can hear the piano along bass on "New Born" that's counterpoint! Cause each instrument is doing a completely different melody between themselves. Yeah always existed some parts/riffs where literally same guitar riff is played by Chris just one octave before (lit on New Born too lol) but there were SOME and that's all. I think on that years was good to the point we can justify it because on many verses or instrumental parts though bass part really do (as I said) a completely different accompaniment regarding other musical intruments. There are several instances as "Hysteria", "Muscle Museum", "Uno", "Time is Running Out", not just old songs of course, for example chorus bassline from "The Handler" is really awesome too.

I have to admit I have not listened with toooo much attention new basslines (I'm going to do it aphelion ) but since what I could see with some times listenings the songs at least I can say they are far what they used to be (and this is not new, there are no much counterpointing bass lines on Simulation Theory or Drones either (I know there are some exceptions).

You could have just said "The basslines just followed the guitar riff". That's a valid criticism, and you didn't need two paragraphs to describe it. My issue, as I said, was that "the basslines are random" doesn't mean anything, and it's usually the type of criticism you hear from people who don't understand music. But I feel like you're mainly focusing on the "Metal"-ish songs, because those are the notable examples where the bass follows the guitar. Muse's producer has actually spoken about this, saying that it was an intentional decision because they took direct influence from certain metal bands that do this all the time. I can find the quote if you want. You can hate it all you want, but it's not a sign of laziness or lack of inspiration...it's simply a creative choice. It's also funny how you spend most of the time complaining that they do things the same way they always have and don't bring anything new...and now you're disappointed because they don't do basslines like they usually do.

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

SO...
Ya bro? It's like when in this forum someone says something as: "Yeah that note is shit", "that note really sucks" just to point out is "shit" no matter as countable, and that's the point. And none of us (cause we can understand it) jump to say: "Oh yeah, you lack of vocal knoewnledge to explain", "very poor analysis". But the fact you want a better explanation not catching the idea just shows off your limited vision on musical theory. Just take for instance what happened on Axl Rose thread, when Mana says something like: "The ugliest thing" for labelling a note and what happened right after ;)

yeah "bro", I would have absolutely no issue if you said "the new album sucked". I don't care what your opinion on it is. I took issue with your attempt to justify your opinion with nonsense pseudo-music terms.

Sept 9, 2022 17:23:22 GMT EddieCheivz said:

To close: you just complaining about final paragraph on my post (what is just a conclsuion, INDEED) to justify I don't have knownledge what I'm talking about, when a "conclusion" is precisaly that; a "conclusion", not an amount of reasons/explanations to proove my point. But yeah you're ignoring all things I said before, that is: (with some exceptions) Muse is always virtually doing the same over and over, yeah obviously maybe more on track to current music, but many components on their songs are been used until satiety point in their repertoire. BTW I said that about "The Globalist" not for contain new material or things, (the riff was played several times yeah, but no as part of a song, same for Psycho) rather it was for the overall composition; to do new things with all that joined, but thanks for the info, never knew about the cover you're talking about, I know probably wasn't best example I could say.

If your defense is "I'm not gonna explain my reasoning in the conclusion", then you realise that...your reasonings must come before the conclusion, right? That's how conclusions work. You summarise what you've already explained. But in this case you didn't explain anything, so you can't hide behind "it was just a conclusion".

Btw if you want to know what's "new" about the heavy songs, it's the first time Muse have implemented double-bass. Dom actually spent a long time learning how to play it just for those songs. Also the first time Matt actually growled in a song. Not that it makes the song objectively better or worse, just to defeat your "nothing new"-criticism.

[EddieCheivz]

I could respond all that but... Nahh who cares? I'm sick of this life

[CT]

Writes research paper about why you are dumb and wrong citing the Declaration of Independence, The Bible and classified CIA documents (that you don’t have clearance for so you can’t know if JFK thought inhaling counted) as sources, all so the people in the computer who care way too much about mouth noises will think I’m incrementally cooler

[Hennessy Macklemore III]

Good talk, everyone.

[CT]

Sept 9, 2022 22:47:09 GMT IhateMana said:

i fucking hate muse lmao

I’ve never even heard a Muse song, I’m just here for the entertainment

[mikale]

i feel like muse is the maroon 5 of modern rock music. and no i won’t elaborate

[Goober]

Just listen to radiohead.

[Bink]

Sept 25, 2022 22:59:10 GMT Goober said:

Just listen to radiohead.

Virgin rock band tier list

[Discount Roger Taylor]

Post literally anything productive in this thread challenge, starting...now!

[BAZanine]

Matt Smellamy