Matt Bellamy (60,892 views)

[Goober]

This was matt's plan the whole time!

[Electric Mami]

Mmh, personally, I would suggest to put all notes starting from D5 in blue. Blue is for falsetto, and no matter how wide open or powerful Matt's falsetto can sometimes get, it's still falsetto, and he never uses mix register, so leaving these in black makes it seem like he can go in mix register up to C♯6, which is wrong ; it's always falsetto. Also it is not very "fair" for other singers who can actually go this high in mix register, which a lot harder accomplish. I don't know, seeing all these high notes in black feels off to me. But please don't see it as a criticism ; I see this is a very in depth thread (like, there's even the notes from interviews, it's so complete !), and thank you for making it, but personally, I would say that for accuracy's, consistency's, and fairness' sake, putting all these higher notes in blue instead of black might be better, in my opinion. The fact that some of them are in bold is already showcasing them (as they should), for their more powerful and wide open quality.

I also saw something like when the notes are wide open like this, it's not necessarily obviously falsetto ; maybe it's not for other singers, but I would like to say that for Matt, it is obvious. I would add that, sure, all vocalists are different, but in my case, I was hugely influenced by Matt as a vocalist, and I used to be able to make these wide open and powerful falsetto notes like him, when I had fun making Muse singing and guitar setlists in my room lol (my falsetto is less powerful and "accessible", now). Much later only, I discovered my mix register ; it sounds and feels quite different, from doing notes in a more wide open falsetto

[aphelion]

We have had this discussion before in the thread: i originally had everything in the 5th octave in blue as you suggested, but was promptly told to make them black to highlight the differences between the softer notes and the harsher ones

[Electric Mami]

Ah, I see, that's fair ! But they're still not mix so mmh… Sorry for being annoying about it haha. How about another blue nuance maybe ? Like a lighter blue for the harsher ones (+ mention of it in the key for the colour code) ? To make sure we differentiate them from chest/mix vocals ? Or keep it as it is now, whatever you prefer haha

[Hennessy Macklemore III]

Dec 22, 2022 22:32:16 GMT Electric Mami said:

How about another blue nuance maybe ? Like a lighter blue for the harsher ones (+ mention of it in the key for the colour code) ?

I'm actually not entirely opposed to this idea. I'm open to further discussion about it at least.

[Electric Mami]

Nice !

I proposed "another blue nuance" in order to remind of the head/falsetto notes' blue, to show it's the same register, but executed differently (I guess). It would also look more coherent with the rest of the thread as well as the other threads in general, but maybe a dark magenta would work too. How about this colour or this colour maybe ?

[Osmosis]

Sounds reasonable to me. I'd go with the darker blue colour you have there.

[Discount Roger Taylor]

I also think going with the darker blue would be a good idea. It seems like that would be a more accurate reflection of his range than all of the currently black notes.

[Bink]

Okay uhh, imma give my 2 cents to this conversation, its really kind of unnecessary. Blue doesn’t mean falsetto, it means OBVIOUS falsetto. And adding an entire new color just because some notes are toned slightly different from others doesn’t mean an entire new nuance needs to be added.

[Velsarie Vivardesque]

Having most of the black notes above the cracking point is misleading. Just singing in chest and head voice are two different worlds, it should be accounted for that and I'm surprised it hasn't been a thing when I first opened a thread here. Blue could remain blue for those 'obvious' falzets or, soft ones, but when it's little to no natural tone ain't no way it should remain black. It's not that hard to find a responsible colour scheme, if you're just lazy, let us know and we'll help yes

[BAZanine]

But black isn't "chest voice". It's literally just anything that is connected enough to not be called clear, obvious falsetto. I think reformatting this thread is absolutely unnecessary, but grant that if OP really wants to, I guess they can so long as the legend reflects it. However, this assertion that notes we keep black have to be pure chest or chest-dominant, let alone before some "cracking point", is absolutely misleading and misrepresentative of most threadmakers' standards.

[Velsarie Vivardesque]

Who would've guessed, it's been this way forever it seems, but why not do something about it. If the point of the forum is to document singers' singing abilities, their vocal ranges across their discographies, this would give us the clearest picture where everything is explained and put to their own category. Right now black notes are a little bit too abstract, they don't stand for anything in particular and could mean a whole lot of everything

[BAZanine]

That's....kind of the point, yes. If we start compartmentalizing everything into very specific categories then chances are we're just going to open up a whole lot of debates about very minute nuances. Whether or not that's a good or bad thing is for the forum at large to decide, but in my opinion if we start going forward with this stuff and expecting it of threadmakers going forward, our debates are going to become more about semantics than vocals. This very outcome is why we've stuck with this system for so long and almost certainly will continue to stick with it at large.

[tim]

My understanding is that the point of this forum is to document a vocalist's range via occasional discussion where merited. If there were no colours, I would be fine with that as I can always listen to the documented song to hear how the vocalist is phonating a particular pitch. The colours are a helpful first-pass shorthand to know how a vocalist performs a particular note. Black tells me it's connected, blue not. How much mix is in a black note is not something I expect the OP to discern, just getting the pitch right seems to be enough of a job in itself for which I thank all OPs. There is nothing to stop anyone taking any of this research and creating a private list with their own colouring scheme. Now, about electric fuchsia... :whistling:

[Osmosis]

Jan 22, 2023 10:50:54 GMT tim said:

My understanding is that the point of this forum is to document a vocalist's range via occasional discussion where merited. If there were no colours, I would be fine with that as I can always listen to the documented song to hear how the vocalist is phonating a particular pitch. The colours are a helpful first-pass shorthand to know how a vocalist performs a particular note. Black tells me it's connected, blue not. How much mix is in a black note is not something I expect the OP to discern, just getting the pitch right seems to be enough of a job in itself for which I thank all OPs. There is nothing to stop anyone taking any of this research and creating a private list with their own colouring scheme. Now, about electric fuchsia... :whistling:

But that is missing the point. The proponents for dark blue are claiming that the notes in question are blue and not black because they are falsetto, and not mixed notes which the black colour suggests. The current black characterisation is therefore misleading. The dark blue conversation seems to be a way of appeasing those who think the notes should be black. I don’t see a problem with it.

[Velsarie Vivardesque]

Yeah it's very understandable, it sure would require some hustle from the threadmakers but well the aesthetics would make you feel proud of the work done. Think about it. Be the first to bring the change, I think it's you, yes, you! Whoever is reading this, you know what I'm talking about. It's not a major change, no fundamentals will be hurt in the making, it's the perfectionists' distant call and eye's pleasing job

[Baronessa]

If I may, to me black has never suggested mixed voice, or chest voice for that matter. On my threads it means "anything that is not blue or green". We would have to make too many new distinctions if we wanted to go the former route.

[aphelion]

Omg guys new key just dropped:

*Underlines mark notes in backing vocals or otherwise muffled/obscured in the mix.
*Blue marks notes that are not black or green.
*Green marks notes that are not black or blue.
*Boldface indicates notes that are notable examples of this singer's capabilities.
*Italics mark non-melodic notes.

In all seriousness, I appreciate the discussion around Matt, he can be a bit of a weird one, so thank you all for the advice and suggestions. I get messages, even outside of TRP, regarding how I have categorised notes. I do believe that a lot of singers on this site have similar issues, not just Matt, and that people will often disagree on what counts as black or blue. For example, to me, a lot of Ross Jennings' high notes sound like falsetto, but the thread here has them black, which isn't wrong at all and I'm not going to go out of my way to change that because THIS thread, especially, has taught me that a lot of users have different criteria for different singers.
If the general consensus is to convert the black notes to blue here, then that's fine by me. I 100% agree that literally everything above C5 here is falsetto, but at the end of the day, this is a range thread and not a technique thread.

If the TRP (the The Range Planet) higher-ups suggest I keep the black, I don't mind that either. I could always include a note in the thread somewhere noting that everything above C5 is falsetto, and that black notes above that are simply used to differentiate between the tone of each note. I could also possibly add "Black notes indicate full voice as well as more connected sounding falsetto notes" to the key. 

What do you guys think?

[Baronessa]

I don't think we've actively cared about defining what "full voice" is in many years.

[BAZanine]

I mean the thing is that a bunch of us actively disagree with the idea that everything above C5 here is pure falsetto. Just saying it 100% is and wanting to use dark blue to differentiate between different types of falsetto is misrepresenting our talking points. At this point I'd probably just redefine blue in your legend to specify the type of tone you're looking for when you make that call and leave the rest as is coloring-wise. Maybe with this redefinition in tow you could clarify that those instances of black notes above C5 are simply not representative of how he employs falsetto in his music, for whatever which reason the community wants to land on.

[Velsarie Vivardesque]

Since it's not standardized, let this be a free-to-choose option. Although I honestly can't see how it's gonna be that much hustle in comparison to notewatching a several thousands of songs for one singer. Take this as a logical evolution of the profile design, there'll be something to write home about from the year 2023

[Osmosis]

Jan 24, 2023 1:37:35 GMT BAZanine said:

I mean the thing is that a bunch of us actively disagree with the idea that everything above C5 here is pure falsetto. Just saying it 100% is and wanting to use dark blue to differentiate between different types of falsetto is misrepresenting our talking points. At this point I'd probably just redefine blue in your legend to specify the type of tone you're looking for when you make that call and leave the rest as is coloring-wise. Maybe with this redefinition in tow you could clarify that those instances of black notes above C5 are simply not representative of how he employs falsetto in his music, for whatever which reason the community wants to land on.

And that's what I was saying, there is a disagreement about whether these notes in question are blue or black and therefore, there needs to be some accounting for that disagreement. There seems to be an almost even split between proponents of all blue and those claiming black so something down the middle makes sense. 

Adding in dark blue would be a far better looking way of representing that disagreement in my opinion, rather than some remark in the legend saying 'black notes above C5 are this that and the next thing'. Just change the colour. 

[BAZanine]

Methinks it covers all the same bases, sans the inclusion of a new format that would likely just serve to ramp up extended debates about semantics in vocal pedagogy. The legend is there for a reason and it's not the OP's fault if the viewer doesn't read it.

[Velsarie Vivardesque]

Me disagree big time, the legend doesn't cover everything and it doesn't distinguish the 'amount of black' in the black notes. Ideally, as many there are vocal techniques, just as many there should be lines in the legend but how much can you ask

[Osmosis]

I don't think there is too much else to say. I also disagree but it is down to the OP and his aesthetic desires for the thread. The opinions on both sides have been laid out and he ambiguity of the notes will be addressed in some way. Would taff and OP be open to a people's vote or is that unprecedented?