tim
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Post by tim on Jan 25, 2023 7:40:56 GMT
"there needs to be some accounting for that disagreement."
There really doesn't. It is perfectly OK to have research published on the the Internet with which people disagree. Multiple opinions without a resolution are known as "agree to disagree", it's quite a common facet of life.
"the legend doesn't cover everything and it doesn't distinguish the 'amount of black' in the black notes"
As is stands, the OP's research appears correct: connected notes are black, those not are blue. 'amount of black' is not a requirement of The Range Planet as far as I can tell, getting the pitch of the notes right is.
"I don't think there is too much else to say."
There does appear to be. It is the OP's decision as to how they publish their research, I don't believe it is yours.
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Post by Osmosis on Jan 25, 2023 10:55:11 GMT
Yes, we all know the OP makes the final decision on their threads. Thank you for the insight.
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Post by Velsarie Vivardesque on Jan 25, 2023 16:21:03 GMT
I think you didn't quite get the point of it all, timo@
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Post by Electric Mami on Jan 26, 2023 1:32:40 GMT
Oh wow what have I started, woops
I'll respect the OP's decision whatever it is, I just wanted to share an opinion due to a personal feeling on the key ; I just thought that indeed, while we're indeed not trying to reflect technique but pitch, if there's a key, that means there is at least a bit of attention brought on the technique. So yes, I agree there's also no need to add tons of nuances in the key for the used technique, but then why not simply defining black in the key, indeed ? Every colour and stylisation (underline, bold, italic) except black has its definition in the key. So the meaning of a black note may not be that obvious, and it's understandable why we debate about it, after all.
I could always include a note in the thread somewhere noting that everything above C5 is falsetto, and that black notes above that are simply used to differentiate between the tone of each note. I could also possibly add "Black notes indicate full voice as well as more connected sounding falsetto notes" to the key.
Considering that, your suggestion seems just fine to me, aphelion ! The latter suggestion especially. That would finally define what are black notes, considering it seems a bit abstract to the point we debated about it lol
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Døc
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Post by Døc on Mar 9, 2023 12:40:51 GMT
We have had this discussion before in the thread: i originally had everything in the 5th octave in blue as you suggested, but was promptly told to make them black to highlight the differences between the softer notes and the harsher ones Black is modal and mix, Blue is Head/Falsetto/Whistle. That's it. If you are going to use the color distinctions, use them right. Just because a mix note is light doesn't mean it still isn't a black note. Just because a falsetto note is weighty doesn't mean it isn't a blue note. Are we gonna start marking low, thin chest notes as fry now? Marking it like this is blatant disinformation. |
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Post by Osmosis on Mar 9, 2023 17:57:58 GMT
We don't need to repeat the same discussion all over again but what the main disagreement came down to was that people did not agree as to the nature of the distorted 5th octave notes - some people think they're connected, others don't. The current thread legend aims to appease both sides. I don't agree with the ruling but it is what it is.
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Post by senatorsenpai on Mar 10, 2023 9:21:05 GMT
In fairness there are a lot of linked notes in the OP, it's easy enough to listen through them and come to your own conclusion.
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Post by Electric Mami on Mar 14, 2023 18:42:55 GMT
Idk if that was brought up again, but while the interview G1 does indeed lack tone imo too, the B1 before the drop to the G1 is fairly solid tbh. But is it long enough/of sufficient quality to be counted, or nope as well ? youtu.be/2w0ZnK0M4QA?t=260 |
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Post by Electric Mami on Mar 15, 2023 20:04:53 GMT
Ohhhh interesting, I didn't know. Thank you for the info !
Edit: So now I know this actually applies to "death growls", not the type of growl that Matt does in that interview, so this is legit first octave
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Post by Electric Mami on Mar 24, 2023 16:17:37 GMT
Here's an actual mix E♭5 (yes !) from Matt, I didn't see it in the thread : youtu.be/zR9PPjITH7g?t=41It's pretty distorted, so it could be green, too, but I believe it's just a really angry black note lol |
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Post by Electric Mami on Mar 25, 2023 14:23:00 GMT
It's absolutely not falsetto nor head so…
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Post by jaredletoisbackagain on Mar 25, 2023 14:29:34 GMT
Those are not the only options
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Post by Electric Mami on Mar 25, 2023 14:59:49 GMT
I mean what could an E♭5 from Matt possibly be if it's not falsetto or head ? It's not inhaled, it's not a whistle, of course, it's not really fry nor false cord either despite being admittedly distorted to a certain extent (and I'd still be wary about it considering he only has one green note and it's in questionable), and it sounds different from Matt's chest, so that really narrows the options, and I honestly don't see what there's left other than mix. Genuine interrogation btw, I'm not trying to sound sarcastic or anything
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Post by jaredletoisbackagain on Mar 25, 2023 15:25:57 GMT
I mean what could an E♭5 from Matt possibly be if it's not falsetto or head ? It's not inhaled, it's not a whistle, of course, it's not really fry nor false cord either despite being admittedly distorted to a certain extent (and I'd still be wary about it considering he only has one green note and it's in questionable), and it sounds different from Matt's chest, so that really narrows the options, and I honestly don't see what there's left other than mix Matt has a history of false cord screaming so I don't see why that would be out of the question. And this certainly sounds like one of them |
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Post by Electric Mami on Mar 25, 2023 15:34:42 GMT
99 % of the time Matt's screams are just really angry or raspy black notes. I happen to know Muse really well, and other than a bunch of rather uncontrolled screams (which aren't false cord btw, they're just really angry black notes, which is different) in the Showbiz-OoS era (Agitated, Yes Please, early performances of Hyper Music etc), I honestly don't recall Matt using false cord screaming. Do you have examples to give ?
Edit : I actually have a great example to show what I mean by really angry black notes vs actual false cord lol : streamable.com/fv8noc. The bassist is attempting to do false cord but is just doing really angry black note. Then the guitarist at her left is doing actual false cord, despite not being a screaming vocalist at all at first. Then the bassist attempts false cord again but does a really angry black note instead. False cord sounds a particular way, and adding rasp or trying to scream but doing a raspy mix or chest note isn't false cord. |
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aritrp
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Post by aritrp on Mar 25, 2023 17:50:19 GMT
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aritrp
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Post by aritrp on Mar 25, 2023 22:56:38 GMT
That's not his voice, is the guitar effect I think. If you listen closer you can hear him keeping the F#5 note he always do and while that happens the other high pitch (probably lot of distorsion of his fuzz pedal) is occouring too, but first it does start with a lower tone before going that high. I have not pitched the notes but I can hear clearly Matt falsetto (we all already know is an F#5) and the other higher frequency along so I assume that's the Bb5 Oh my... I actually got so tricked, I can hear it now I guess he really does sound like a guitar a lot lol |
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Post by Goober on Mar 25, 2023 23:02:56 GMT
Those are not the only options Green voice |
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Post by Electric Mami on Apr 15, 2023 11:27:09 GMT
Matt's only legit green note is the questionable D6. That's legit fry. The rest are raspy and/or saturated (effect) black notes (see Execution Commentary). Or well, to be fair, what you consider a green note differs from notewatcher to notewatcher, so I'll give you that I should be respectful of what y'all consider green and what you consider black, but technique isn't an opinion, just like the pitch of notes. The E♭5 I mentioned a few days ago might be a green note for some notewatchers, but not for me, and green or not, I am pretty sure this is not false chord, but just a raspy mixed note, similar to some of his raspy chest notes on certain OoS performances.
Uno at ABC Studios, Melbourne, Australia, on March 7, 2000 youtu.be/RoB1DVWBe0Q?t=136 quick E♭3
Uno at Le Dôme, Marseille, France, on November 11, 2003 Matt also commonly does falsetto E5's at the end of the second chorus of Uno in live performances (two examples: Leeds University 2001, MCM Café 1999), so I guess it can be mentioned in the thread too
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Post by Electric Mami on Jul 10, 2023 1:09:26 GMT
Proposing this recent live pic for a new thread pic. I know it's not necessary to have the most recent cool live pic for the thread pic, but I found this one really nice. It was taken by theworkofjar at Bellahouston Park, Glasgow, on June 23, 2023. |
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Post by Electric Mami on Sept 23, 2023 23:17:14 GMT
Just realised some of the old and dark demos from Muse aren't in the thread, so let's go: • G4's in Sling• A4 in Feed• Quick E♭3 on the "all the time" in Backdoor• E3's (there's on towards the beginning) + A4 and E5 at 4:28 in Falling With the Crowd• The A4's in the 1998 Muse EP version of Overdue are chest instead of falsetto. There's also an E3 in that same version of the song at 2:39. • Goofy mixed C♯5 in the 1997 demo of Showbiz (instead of falsetto in the album version). Given how… odd it sounds, it may not be worth mentioning. • E3 and G4's in Connect the Kettle Lead, and a potential C5. I'm saying potential because it clearly sounds like Matt, but at the same time I feel like the back vocal should come from Chris, so I'm not entirely sure. Song is not on YouTube, I'll send it to you. • D3, G4's, A4's and C5 in Good News. Same, I'll send you the song. • G4 and A4's in Boredom. I'll send it to you. • F5 and B4 in the demo version of Ashamed. Same. • Old songs/demo versions I haven't mentioned just don't have any significant high or low note. • Not demos, but I could add that Showbiz, which has been performed half a step down since it got played again in 2017, has some live C3's (studio version bottoms at C♯3). Example: youtu.be/UPzFJtiNSDE?t=30 (not the first "they'll", later). There's other falsetto G♯5's in other performances of MK Ultra (example: youtu.be/t2ZgR5-1roI?t=142 ), so I guess you could replace Oracle Arena 2010 by Various Live Performances. He also does a falsetto B5 in the same song at Rock in Rio 2010 ( youtu.be/pWAOK3PyJbo?t=157 ), but probably too short to count. |
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