Ivan Rebroff (14,338 views)

[Steingrim]

He does a glissando up to a chest A4 at the end of Havila Nagila, that is a strained note for him. Following him upwards may not be that easy for a low singer. His extremely low fry notes give the impression that he is a lowish bass, but he may be more of a bass baritone with a high extension that carries over into his falsetto register. Quite possibly the same phenomenon as Dimash, just half an octave or so lower.

[kaji]

Rebroff recorded plenty of both baritone and bass arias. If you listen to him carefully in those you’ll be able to hear that he is actually almost fairly certainly a dramatischer bariton with a lower extension. The aria from Ernani in particular makes you see that. And his technique and approach is close enough to Verdian classical that we can use these terms.

[Steingrim]

Feb 28, 2023 12:05:37 GMT kaji said:

Rebroff recorded plenty of both baritone and bass arias. If you listen to him carefully in those you’ll be able to hear that he is actually almost fairly certainly a dramatischer bariton with a lower extension. The aria from Ernani in particular makes you see that. And his technique and approach is close enough to Verdian classical that we can use these terms.

The dramatischer bariton has an expected range of G/A2 - G#/A4, according to a couple of sources. Ivan's E2 is much better than his A4 is, that's for sure.

[kaji]

Feb 28, 2023 12:23:45 GMT Steingrim said:

Feb 28, 2023 12:05:37 GMT kaji said:

Rebroff recorded plenty of both baritone and bass arias. If you listen to him carefully in those you’ll be able to hear that he is actually almost fairly certainly a dramatischer bariton with a lower extension. The aria from Ernani in particular makes you see that. And his technique and approach is close enough to Verdian classical that we can use these terms.

The dramatischer bariton has an expected range of G/A2 - G#/A4, according to a couple of sources. Ivan's E2 is much better than his A4 is, that's for sure.

A4 where? Unless you’re talking about a Verdian baritone that would not be accurate. Dramatic baritone repertoire mostly covers the G#2-G4 range. But it also calls for a low F in several pieces. Cornell MacNeil, Lawrence Tibbett and Apollo Granforte are very good examples of such singers, former being a Verdian baritone.

[Steingrim]

Well the sources seem to be making a total mess out of the terms lyric, dramatic, kavalier and helden, combining them at will. So never mind.

The opera aria you mentioned is quite interesting :



He goes all the way down to an Eb2 at about 3:00 and finishes on a G#4, neither note seems to be part of the typical setup for that aria. Having been to operas and concerts with classical singers dozens of times I must say that I find the Eb2 more pleasing than the G#4. There are lots of operatic basses that aren't going to handle that low note any better.

[kaji]

Feb 28, 2023 12:42:04 GMT Steingrim said:

Well the sources seem to be making a total mess out of the terms lyric, dramatic, kavalier and helden, combining them at will. So never mind.

The opera aria you mentioned is quite interesting :



He goes all the way down to an Eb2 at about 3:00 and finishes on a G#4, neither note seems to be part of the typical setup for that aria. Having been to operas and concerts with classical singers dozens of times I must say that I find the Eb2 more pleasing than the G#4. There are lots of operatic basses that aren't going to handle that low note any better.

I’m not certain why you look at the extremes of the piece there rather than the actual middle of the voice - which seems very baritonal.

Also the funny thing about those terms though - in the actual fächer system there is NO dramatic baritone. There is only lyrischer bariton, kavalierbariton, charakterbariton and heldenbariton. The last one is what we would sort of see as the fäch equivalent to the Italian drammatico baritono. Albeit the tessitura usually seems to be slightly lower. But this is typical due to these parts being Wagnerian. Italian composers such as Verdi wrote everything ridiculously high too so it doesn’t mean much. Charakterbariton is closer in terms or range.

Although not commonly talked about, there is such a thing as a spinto baritone in Italian opera.
“Spinto lyrical baritone or lyrical-dramatic : it is a lyrical baritone whose voice is naturally endowed with greater volume or a dramatic baritone with more ease of emission in the acute register; ranges from the central to the acute zone. When necessary, it goes as far as purely dramatic tones. He is a type of baritone typical of Verdi 's opera , such as to be defined as a Verdi baritone”. This is kinda off-topic but I’d still think you’d find it interesting. People usually focus only on a few terms and then put them all as ‘fach’ when in reality they simply are not. Leggero tenor isn’t a fach. Spinto soprano isn’t a fach. Italian classifications. People misuse these terms.

[Steingrim]

I'm not arguing that he is bass, only that he has the weight and power to sing that low in an opera hall. Osmin's low D has been used to demonstrate how much the low note ability of well known operatic basses can differ. That's one semitone lower and more sustained, but the difference from Ivan's Eb2 can't be that huge.

You pointed out earlier that his vocal coach referred to him as a bass baritone and that he was referred to as a dramatic baritone elsewhere. He's clearly capable of taking on both roles, so which version has got the "weightier end" figured out may be difficult to determine.

[Tetra]

anyways uhh opera amirite guys

[stelios06]

Feb 28, 2023 12:42:04 GMT Steingrim said:

Well the sources seem to be making a total mess out of the terms lyric, dramatic, kavalier and helden, combining them at will. So never mind.

The opera aria you mentioned is quite interesting :



He goes all the way down to an Eb2 at about 3:00 and finishes on a G#4, neither note seems to be part of the typical setup for that aria. Having been to operas and concerts with classical singers dozens of times I must say that I find the Eb2 more pleasing than the G#4. There are lots of operatic basses that aren't going to handle that low note any better.

A more pleasing G4 here
 

[Steingrim]

Maybe he's extended both ways, making him a true bass+baritone. Which would mean that kaji has found his midpoint, which would be a mid-to-lowish baritone. His very good operatic Eb2 suggests that his weight is towards the lower end. I have the feeling that Thomas Quasthoff might be the same, maybe a tad lower. Ivan Rebroff doesn't push his chest voice quite as far as Quasthoff does at times.

If we take Ivan Rebroff's Eb2-G#4 in Ernani and move it four semitones up, we arrive at G2-C5, the realm of the true baritenor. Which is what Michael Spyres aspires to.

[stelios06]

Sorry for making so many comments, just found this fun to be in a separate comment
Heres a nice Bb1

[Steingrim]

The guy to the right in that trio, Gunther Emmerlich, is an operatic bass. His timbre is darker, this may be easier to tell in other videos with the trio.

[mike1951]

Feb 14, 2023 21:35:30 GMT stelios06 said:

A#5 here
youtu.be/qfS1goWHRH0?t=3082

what is his highest chest voice note that you have encountered?

[Steingrim]

Mar 17, 2023 0:37:27 GMT mike1951 said:

Feb 14, 2023 21:35:30 GMT stelios06 said:

A#5 here
youtu.be/qfS1goWHRH0?t=3082

what is his highest chest voice note that you have encountered?

He has an A4 in Hava Nagila. Discounting the awful Eb1 and the momentary C6, his recorded range comes down to (F1)-C2-A4-(Bb5)
I'm pretty sure that he was capable of singing slightly lower than C2 in his chest voice, this may have been a cutting off point where he preferred to switch registers and sing strohbass instead.

[mike1951]

Mar 17, 2023 6:48:18 GMT Steingrim said:

Mar 17, 2023 0:37:27 GMT mike1951 said:

what is his highest chest voice note that you have encountered?

He has an A4 in Hava Nagila. Discounting the awful Eb1 and the momentary C6, his recorded range comes down to (F1)-C2-A4-(Bb5)
I'm pretty sure that he was capable of singing slightly lower than C2 in his chest voice, this may have been a cutting off point where he preferred to switch registers and sing strohbass instead.

I love his chest voice and especially his head voice, he has like the best head voice I have heard out of all the male singers I have heard! 

[Steingrim]

Apr 1, 2023 22:52:32 GMT mike1951 said:

Mar 17, 2023 6:48:18 GMT Steingrim said:

He has an A4 in Hava Nagila. Discounting the awful Eb1 and the momentary C6, his recorded range comes down to (F1)-C2-A4-(Bb5)
I'm pretty sure that he was capable of singing slightly lower than C2 in his chest voice, this may have been a cutting off point where he preferred to switch registers and sing strohbass instead.

I love his chest voice and especially his head voice, he has like the best head voice I have heard out of all the male singers I have heard! 

I agree, very few male singers have a pleasant sound when they sing falsetto in octave 4. Most sound like Mickey Mouse.

[mike1951]

Apr 2, 2023 7:07:46 GMT Steingrim said:

Apr 1, 2023 22:52:32 GMT mike1951 said:

I love his chest voice and especially his head voice, he has like the best head voice I have heard out of all the male singers I have heard! 

I agree, very few male singers have a pleasant sound when they sing falsetto in octave 4. Most sound like Mickey Mouse.

very true, it's very very rare to find male singers with head voice. Also Dimash has a very good head voice even though I don't like almost anything about his voice

[Steingrim]

Apr 6, 2023 18:57:34 GMT mike1951 said:

Apr 2, 2023 7:07:46 GMT Steingrim said:

I agree, very few male singers have a pleasant sound when they sing falsetto in octave 4. Most sound like Mickey Mouse.

very true, it's very very rare to find male singers with head voice. Also Dimash has a very good head voice even though I don't like almost anything about his voice

Ivan Rebroff doesn't come across as a range wanker, instead he employs his vast range in useful ways. The F1 from "In tiefen keller" may be an exception, but that song seems to be a bit like Old Man River, it's an old standard that singers take to ridiculous depths anyway. Gunther Emmerlich whom I mentioned above has a really decent version of it that he sings from D2 - which is a really easy and good chest note for him. 

[stelios06]

An incredible C2 to G4 ascent



Never thought id hear ivan do a sexual low voice lol

[Steingrim]

That made him sound like Barry White for a moment. Low C at 2:37 here :

[kaji]

Great high G youtu.be/LYPD5JRLPmA?si=pFnZ9hPvjFabkEF4&t=176

[stelios06]

A nice Bb1, I dont think its fry

[Steingrim]

Sept 5, 2023 20:01:23 GMT stelios06 said:

A nice Bb1, I dont think its fry

I think he changes registers for that three word sentence, from the word "zu". But it's a very nice and rattle free Bb1, regardless.

[wbradycall]

Feb 28, 2023 12:32:04 GMT kaji said:

Feb 28, 2023 12:23:45 GMT Steingrim said:

The dramatischer bariton has an expected range of G/A2 - G#/A4, according to a couple of sources. Ivan's E2 is much better than his A4 is, that's for sure.

A4 where? Unless you’re talking about a Verdian baritone that would not be accurate. Dramatic baritone repertoire mostly covers the G#2-G4 range. But it also calls for a low F in several pieces. Cornell MacNeil, Lawrence Tibbett and Apollo Granforte are very good examples of such singers, former being a Verdian baritone.

May you show me the clip of Apollo Granforte singing an F2?

[kaji]

Dec 1, 2023 18:34:35 GMT wbradycall said:

Feb 28, 2023 12:32:04 GMT kaji said:

A4 where? Unless you’re talking about a Verdian baritone that would not be accurate. Dramatic baritone repertoire mostly covers the G#2-G4 range. But it also calls for a low F in several pieces. Cornell MacNeil, Lawrence Tibbett and Apollo Granforte are very good examples of such singers, former being a Verdian baritone.

May you show me the clip of Apollo Granforte singing an F2?

I was talking there about him being a dramatic Verdian baritone. Please reread my message.